The Mystery Of The Disappearing Folder (A Policy Change Request)

[AmasterAmaster]

Preface:

I thought long and hard on whether I should make this discussion, as this has been eating at me for a good while now. One side suggests I should bring it up and open all the proverbial can-of-worms, but doing so would only cause divides in the community and harm those that know they were in the wrong and those that were innocent or had no knowledge that something even happened. The other side suggests I should keep quiet and take it on the chin, but of course doing that, nothing would get done, and it would continue to bother me knowing that I could do nothing to change (or at least acknowledge) the fact of it. So I ultimately decided for something in the middle, I won't mention any names, only the actions taken that led up to this point. I also want to ask the community on what I should do, because at this point, I am at a loss, unsure where to go from here. And if you know any individuals that may have had a hand in this, please do NOT go out of your way to attack them, I don't condone it.

Situation:

So, if you heard of me before, you may know me as the silly user that makes different things in Resonite, a project here, an item here, a workshop world there, so on and so fourth. I wanted to help the community, so I got an idea one day to make a collection, a "library" of sorts, for the community-made custom ProtoFlux nodes. I am fully aware that alone sparks up controversy, as that is going to be a feature one day. Both sides of the isle are at odds with this, one side saying "you should wait, it will be here one day, so why work on things like that", while the other side states to "be creative, go right ahead, that is literally the spirit of Resonite to make whatever you want". This discussion is NOT to talk about the ethics of custom nodes or anything like that, as this topic is only focused about the shared folder that went missing one day from the Resonite Essentials folder.

Now, I love custom nodes, hence why I dedicated many hours of many days thinking and creating these nodes, putting them in a folder, organized in a coherent way as best as I could. This went on for a few months and I felt it was good enough to share with the community. The idea was to help users with ProtoFlux projects, a convenient plug-n-play method of coding that helps speed up flux related tasks. I talked to 2 Resonite Dev Team members if it was ok to submit a folder like this, as at the time, I was unaware if I missed a deadline to submitting folders to the Resonite Essentials folder. And on Jan 15th, 2025 the folder was submitted and approved, however not in the usual "Community Shared Folders" like I expected, but in the "Examples" -> "ProtoFlux" folder. Even if it was not in the expected folder, I was still delighted that it got accepted, and I thank the Resonite Team for considering it worthy for the community, as that made me feel like I was able to help someone out there.

Fast forward about 2-3 weeks and a friend mentioned to me that something was gone, I was confused on what they meant, but they told me that my folder is no longer there (and confirming it by going there myself to see that is true). This alone broke me that day, and made my friend and I have a myriad of emotions and thoughts of what could have happened. I took a day to recover from that sudden decision and decided to make an inquiry to the moderation/support team to see what happened to it and if they could help at all. I sent the following message to them (names redacted for privacy reasons):

Granted, I was still a bit emotional, but when you pour a lot of time into something, that tends to happen. But I patiently waited for a response, and one did arrive:

When I received that, I felt it was not very helpful, especially with the situation I am in (to the point of ambiguity, like am I supposed to post the ticket for everyone to see?). I am fully aware that the moderation team cannot reveal critical information, such as names, complaints, or actions taken, but I felt this policy could be improved on, or at least be told what I could have changed before the removal of the folder. If people were more open and talked to me directly with their problems with it, it would help me fix bugs, remove offending items (if any), and improve as a coder so I can make less mistakes with the custom nodes I make. But unfortunately, I had to do my own digging and investigation into why this happened. And with a day or two, I found out who was the one that did it. I won't name this individual, but they are very well known in the community and back then I looked up to them like a hero in my eyes. I no longer think of them as such anymore.

Throughout this entire endeavor, it has been a rollercoaster, and I felt like I was disregarded, someone that gets stepped on easily, and having negative thoughts akin to "ostracization". I respect the Dev's decisions on the matter (in both cases of approval and removal), but I can't say the same for the individual that complained about the folder in the first place. It did not hurt them, it did not get in their way, and it was not even their interest to care for it or its contents (but obviously they cared enough to report it). I will follow a friends advice on this matter: "Respect the actions, but don't be a pushover either".

I was faced with a dilemma... Create a Github ticket and put everyone on blast, or do nothing and live with the failure. I don't feel this should just be a "content issue", as this is multiple issues wrapped up to make this situation what it currently is, a "policy issue". Catching up to today, writing this very discussion post.

This is where I need your help... It should never have got to this point honestly, but this is mentally draining. I did what I could to help where I can, but if the community deems that my help is not welcome, then I understand too. I will think twice before I make or publish a thing if that is the case. But for those of you that wish to support, give advise, or helping to keep me sane, thank you, I appreciate it. I want to see this platform be the best it can be, but it is difficult at times, especially with no explanations, so what should I do? What can I do?

Conclusion:

TL;DR, I just wish for the following:

• Notifying individuals effected by any type of removal and reasons behind it, along with an allocated time frame to get changes to be applied. (Policy)
• An appeal system that helps with dealing with these types of issues. (Policy & Technical)
• Not having a redirect response to Github as a suggestion for issues like these. These issues should stay in a private setting. (Policy)
• Having my shared public folder reinstated back on the Resonite Essentials folder, or failing that, having an official reason or statement sent to me either here or privately on Resonite and/or Discord (Policy & Content)

[JackTheFoxOtter]

Anything in Resonite Essentials, especially in the "examples" folder is generally meant to show things that other people can take apart and learn from. If you had "custom nodes" in that folder, that's probably the reason why it was removed, since that sets a pretty bad example for new users (considering this is definitely a "thing to avoid" until we get proper nested nodes).

My general recommendation would be to make a folder of ProtoFlux snippets that can be spawned out and copied into existing code. That's how other creators (for example Uki or myself) share code snippets in our public folders as well. (I just use RedPrint's "miniprint" feature, that way I can add a title, comments and save it into my public folder unpacked that way, without much overhead).

Edit:
The community submissions for Resonite Essentials are generally just a placeholder until we get a proper in-game workshop. AFAIK this is handled completely manually by Aegis, so something like this can happen quickly. Folders also get shuffled around often as the Resonite Essentials folder is cleaned up / reorganized. He likely didn't intend to not inform you, probably just forgot to do that.

Edit 2:
There's likely noone in the community that meant any ill intend, by the way. There were multiple people (including myself) that voiced concerns about "custom nodes" being part of Resonite Essentials. It's more about setting good examples for new users.

[JackTheFoxOtter]

True, that would be a nightmare for many.

Not would be. Will be. That's the core problem with these things.

[Banane9]

I think the main issue here is that none of this was communicated to Amaster. If the custom nodes were that much of a problem, one'd also think that his folder wouldn't have been included in the first place. That's why the discussion about whether they're good or not isn't really relevant.

[stiefeljackal]

I agree with @Banane9. Let's wait for an official response from the team rather than speak for the team.

[Phylliida]

@JackTheFoxOtter just FYI (I'm TessaCoil)

had a ton of ProtoFlux just keeping themselves together during packing & unpacking

Yes it's about 100 nodes, this is why I discourage ppl from using them for very simple functions and recommend dyn impulses instead. But for certain things like split string they can be useful, Amaster's folder has many such things.

used monopacking to obscure the code / complexity of the object

The monopacking isn't intended to obscure the code, in fact there's an unmonopacked version of the insides of the nodes inside the editor for reference. The monopacking of the packing/unpacking logic just makes the packing nicer and optimizes things a bit, as if I didn't monopack that logic I'd need to put an empty <NODE_UI> under every flux node in there every time it's packed and unpacked, and would need quite a few more dynvars.

had a ton of dynamic variables

It has a dynvar for every node inside the packed node (plus a few extra for metadata about the relays), the reason is so it knows who to keep unpacked/keep inside the node. I could turn these into a single dynvar with a string but that would require refhacking, and I specifically did not put any refhacking in custom nodes themselves (and one can unpack these nodes and see how they work without refhacking. However unfortunately the node creator does use refhacking :( Still trying to figure out ways of not doing this but that's in progress, and I don't think it's possible until we have some sort of getComponent).

stored the UI elements even when packed

They are disabled so they shouldn't take up much frames. However, storing the UI elements (of the custom node itself, none of its children) when packed was necessary to reduce the complexity of the packing logic. I could probably optimize this a bit, but it's difficult to not do this to some extent since I can't automatically generate the UI on unpacking easily without refhacking.

Apologies if this is irrelevant to the discussion I'm happy to remove this comment if needed

[AmasterAmaster]

I think the explanations make sense, especially given the current limitations of Resonite (until the official implementation in the future) and how the custom nodes actually work. There is value in understanding and knowing how something works. I appreciate your comment about it.

[Nytra]

I don't think those custom nodes should be in Resonite Essentials as they are made in a hacky way which could break in the future. If there were ref hacking nodes in that folder it is even worse. Resonite Essentials should be for stuff that is purely 'vanilla' and using supported features only.

[AmasterAmaster]

I mean, there is a multitool in the resonite essentials folder, but people don't complain about that, yet that does not get removed, even though we tell people (as mentors) to use/show the default tools. How is this any different? This nodes are custom yes, but they are helpful as well in the same vain.

[JackTheFoxOtter]

The multitool doesn't abuse Resonite's features against their intended purpose. Also mentors aren't instructed to not show new users multitools, that was only the case on the old platform. In fact, I'm pretty sure the multitool was added because many new users saw the need for something like that.

[Nytra]

A multitool is made using components explicitly meant to multiplex tools. It is not using workarounds to achieve unintended functionality.

[Redd56]

The multitool doesn't abuse Resonite's features against their intended purpose. Also mentors aren't instructed to not show new users multitools, that was only the case on the old platform. In fact, I'm pretty sure the multitool was added because many new users saw the need for something like that.

oh then the guidlines in the training world need updating, it still says default tools only

[AmasterAmaster]

Either way (and getting back on topic), the ethics of custom nodes aside, I just don't like how the whole situation was handled. I wish I was notified before removal of that, or if there was a problem, then I wish I could have the time to fix it. It is the policy and the situation, not the content (because the content could have been anything).

[ProbablePrime]

Can i suggest waiting for the team to take a look here?

There's a lot of conversations going on here involving semantics etc. but I am not sure what's going on to start with.

[Amunak]

This is really sad to read, and as I've said multiple times the Resonite team needs to take steps to be better at communicating. Pre-emptively contacting users about actions taken and be as transparent as possible.

Instead it's usually up to the affected user(s) to notice and contact the team, which usually ends up with "this is not the place to discuss this", so you get sent around and end up with Github as a last resort. Here it also doesn't feel appropriate as it's here for the whole world to see publicly and it's just not a great place for discussion or feedback in general, and it feels like stirring drama even when you genuinely have no other avenue.

Wish Resonite had a good old forum (BBS).

[RockstarRaccoon]

The content team holds office hours where this was brought up a couple days ago. It's not even clear to me if this was the result of an intentional decision.

[AmasterAmaster]

@RockstarRaccoon If there is a recording of that particular office hours, please post it here, I would love to listen through it.

[Amunak]

@RockstarRaccoon no matter the reason behind this specific instance, I meant this more generally, too. To me (and I know I'm not alone in thinking this) the communication is not great overall and there is basically no avenue to communicate less officially (i.e. not on Github) but also more "symmetrically" - where it's a level playing field with (hopefully) a productive discussion.

Office Hours are nice but they are largely real-time events with inconvenient timing for many people, and even that's highly asymmetrical (text versus speech, and they decide what they address and how, and there's not much time to think things through either) and doesn't really promote discussion - it's more of a Q&A.

Discord is just ... bad for productive discussion, as it's a chat platform and it gets easily spammed with irrelevant stuff or the relevant people just don't see it.

And that's pretty much it, outside of "private" avenues like the ticketing system or talking to team members directly, none of which is good for productive discussion or really advocating for any kind of change.

[DanteTucker]

@AmasterAmaster The Moderation team doesn't manage the Essentials folder, nor do they have any insight into decisions about what is included.

That's why you were directed away from the ticket system when you filed a moderation ticket.

[AmasterAmaster]

Ah, I was not aware which department can do/access which things, thank you for enlightening me there.

[Krzeszny]

Should whoever decided to remove it have informed Amaster before doing so? Yes. That would've been polite. However, we don't know why it was removed, which I'd say should be the starting point. I think making assumptions that make us unhappy, like humans do for some reason, is so often a problem. So here's my two cents on the results of identifying with thoughts, because I wanted to touch upon mindfulness and the power of now.

@AmasterAmaster nobody was hurt by that action, rather as a result of thinking about that action. A link to your dedicated, voluntary work was removed, and initially, you felt surprised. But as you started thinking more and more about it, you felt disappointed and sad because of it. It's only human to be sad if something doesn't work out. That (ideally) motivates us to improve. But then you started thinking it was intentional, that someone disregarded you and took it personally, thinking you're being ostracized. The alternative attitude, which I'd recommend, is "I don't know why it happened and I can't know until I get further information". Thinking about the past without any new information is often pointless, but that's how the mind reacts when losing mindfulness, and as it was in this case, reacts to one individual's decision. I don't mean to say you did something wrong. There's no right and wrong with thinking and feeling. But perhaps it's useful to reflect on it sometimes, observing if it's appropriate for you. What does the mind do when detached from the present moment and identifying with the non-existent past? When we lose mindfulness because something unexpected happens, we too easily forget to reflect on what we can affect, losing awareness of what's here and now, what's appropriate to do, and wishing things somewhere else were different. Dissatisfied by being attached to what's uncertain, to things that can randomly disappear at any moment. And deep mindfulness prepares us for the impermanence of everything in life.

And also, don't stop being creative because of what others think; do what's worthwhile for you. It's your life.

[AmasterAmaster]

The reason for including those emotional tidbits into the discussion post was to show the entire process of what I went through in both the approval and removal of the folder, showing the reasoning at the time and the actions I took that led me to this exact spot here. Granted that emotions basically do nothing when trying to get things done or to solve issues, but they also show the path and choices one takes when dealing with a situation like this (human nature and whatnot). For the actionable portion of the post, I left a TL;DR on what can be done or improved upon, wishing as a request (although does not have to be honored, but it would be nice though).

[AegisTheWolf]

I apologize for removing the folder, I felt pressured from concerns of people in world and in the discord. I should have responded at the time but didnt out of shame. I will move the process of vetting folders to be delegated to multiple people rather than just me to prevent future instances of this and nepotism/bias/preferential treatment.

[AmasterAmaster]

You are all good, don't worry about what others think if you get pressured like that. You do amazing work, and I still respect you and your decisions no matter what. I also thank you for even considering my stuff to be worthy enough to be considered for that folder (even if it was for a short time), I still wish to help the community where I can.