Work Order Creation 5.0

[bmay598]

I am working on updating our system to version 5.0 and had a question on Work Order creation. Some parts that are set as make do not show up when searching for parts in the work order creation. I looked into the script a little bit (WorkOrderEntry.php) and found the following constraint on line 528
AND (SELECT COUNT(bom.parent) FROM bom WHERE bom.parent=stockmaster.stockid)>0

I deleted that line and then was able to add parts that do not have a parent bom
It seems to only list items that are part of a BOM. Is there a reason for that? That doesn't seem to be a constraint in 4.15

[dalers]

Hi @bmay598, glad to hear from a webERP user and that you are upgrading!

Thanks for your report. I may be moving this discussion to an issue but for now we can keep the conversation here. I have not personally used Work Orders but there are others here who use them extensively and they should be able to respond from experience.

Fwiw, from the Manufacturing chapter of The Manual (or PDF https://weberp.org/downloads/webERP.Manual.4.15.2.2025-09-03.pdf)

Overview: Enter a Work Order - selecting all the output items required to be included in the work order costing. To ensure accurate costing it is recommended that work orders be created for single items wherever possible.

Work Order Entry: The Work Order is the medium for issuing components/raw materials to. A running total of the costs issued to the work order is maintained. Work orders can be created that have any number of output items. Output items are restricted to only "manufactured" items as defined in the item entry form.

Work Order Entry: With the above information completed then the items to be manufactured on the work order need to be selected. Normally this should just be a single item but it is possible to have multiple outputs against a single work order which is useful for by-products or processes with several output products.

To me this says any "made" ("manfactured") item can be an output in a Work Order. Is this what you mean? It may be that the logic requires a BOM to specify inputs and so it may be reasonable that manufactured parts are required to have a BOM. I suspect there is a transformation that someone might want to do, one that doesn't necessaraily involve a BOM but a workaround would presumably be to create a BOM.

You could also have found an issue with the implementation or perhaps the code is making assumptions or has dependencies, and which is the cause of the unexpected behavior.

@pakricard and @aingelc12ell, iirc you use work orders in your systems, can you provide any clarification?

@bmay598 can you describe generally what you are trying to accomplish? It would also be helpful to the project to know what type of business you are using webERP for and also any special or unique aspects of the business.

[pakricard]

The script WorkOrderEntry.php had a major overhaul and this restriction was adde on commit 049c1f7 in Set 2024. It did not exist in the previous script version from commit c156948 in Aug 2020.

To me, this restriction makes sense because you need a BOM to have a work order, otherwise: What components are you going to use? Where are the located? Do you have enough components to produce that work order?

All these questions are managed by webERP, and without a BOM they can't be correctly addressed.

R

[dalers]

Thanks @pakricard!

@bmay598 can you explain yourn work order workflow. Why do you prefer the way that version 4.15 worked? Is there anything that prevents you from creating BOMs?

[bmay598]

We do machined parts. Many times I do not create a bill of material because I do not always use the same size material for the part. So for example, if I make a part that has a finish diameter of 1 inch, Nominally, I would buy a material that is 1-1/8 diameter. But sometimes, I have 1-1/4 on the shelf, and it is not worth buying the 1-1/8 for the job. I could make a bill of material that has 1-1/8 that is not auto issue, and then issue the material I use, (this is probably the correct way). But, in the past, it wasn't needed to make the bill of material so I didn't do it and the machinist would just write on the work order the material size they used and I would issue it to the part. the material is listed on the drawing, so the machinist never sees the bill of material in weberp.

Just to summarize - many of the parts we make, do not have a bill of material and I just issue the material that was used to the work order. I can see the logic where weberp manages the material and tells you what to buy based on the bill of material and where you are short. But in short run parts, job shop or prototyping parts, I just issue material when I receive the job rather than go through the process of making a bill of material. Nothing is preventing me from making a bill of material, but it would probably be wrong as the machinist will use the size of material on hand, rather than looking at the bill of material to see what it says.

[dalers]

Thanks @bmay598 for very concise description! :-) Your approach is flexible and pragmatic for your situation (and not uncommon I expect in small companies).

Some options that come to mind are:

1. Create a generic material part code and use it on a BOM which allows creating a work order and correct the material later when it is known. This seems more effort though than your solution using version 4.15 (without the BOM test).

2. webERP could add a config variable (e.g. in menu item [Setup > General > Company Prrferences]) which would cause the BOM test to be bypassed. This seems the best overall solution to me.

Does anyone have any other ideas or comments?

[dalers]

Or...., following the scenario you described,

you do create a BOM and auto-issue 1-1/8 dia. material to the work order ("prohibit negative stock" must be set to No) and on the occassion when there is no stock of 1-1/8, but there is stock of 1-1/4, the machinist writes on the work order that 1-1/4 was used and the work order is updated in webERP (remove 1-1/8 and add 1-1/4 dia material) and then the work order can be received.

Other than having to remove the 1-1/8 material, this seems to be about the same amount of work as you are doing now with ver 4.12 with the added benefit of not having to manually add the 1-1/8 material afterwards when it is in stock and used instead (and no code changes needed for webERP :-) ).

Is this a reasonable solution?

[bmay598]

this would work as a work around. I guess in the end, I just wanted to make sure this was a desired change in the system. I can try that work around, or I may end up just deleting that check in the code. I am pretty short staffed and usually forgo making the bill of material for low run or one off parts. Not that it takes a ton of time, but every little bit seems to add up. Thanks for the help

[dalers]

Hi @bmay598

usually forgo making the bill of material for low run or one off parts.

Is most of your work making low run and one-off parts, and the raw stock is selected at the time of manufacturing, after the work order has been created?

Am I correct to assume that adding a config flag to ignore whether a manufactured part has a BOM and adding the consumped material to the work order after the part is manufactured (as you do now) would be your preferred solution?

To the community at large: would anyone object to adding a config variable to allow work orders for an item without a BOM?

[bmay598]

You are correct, most work is low run, prototype parts that material is selected at the time of fabrication. There are some parts and assemblies that have detailed bill of materials also, but there are also many low run parts.

A config flag would be ideal for me, but it is not a deal breaker.

[dalers]

I'm going to take this discussion to the next level and create an issue for not being able to create a work order unless a BOM exists. For me, upstreaming a resolution is preferable to having to maintain a personal fork with changes.