6aA50THi-VI.txt

Speaker 1:          00:00:00       Doom, doom, uh, data. Um, and we're live Josh steps I didn't even notice. And then I took a sip of coffee and then my mouth was full of coffee. Perfect timing. Realize. All right dude. Should have had a count down to five or something instead of three. What? Jamie was doing this thing with his fingers. Yeah, he was. I saw him over there, out of the periphery of the corner of my eye and I wasn't sure what he was dealing with it a countdown. Was it a wave? Gang signs. Gang signs. That's his gang. Fucking james and Jay are gang throws up the three, two, one. Will you teach me after the show? Jamie? Some of the signs after the show. You can even talk about it. Dude. Sorry to keep on the DL. First rule of jre gang. You got talk about January. Perfect.

Speaker 1:          00:00:38       Time to have you in the fucking world is literally about to go crazy. What's going on? About two to half. It's just the bubbling. I think we, we think it has, but here we are and this wonderful office park in the valley in California. Everything's fine. Go outside, there's birds chirping, so the whole world hasn't gone crazy. It's true, but there's spots that are going fucking crazy. Yale has gone crazy and pay attention to that. The students did my whole show up at it last week on my new podcast. Which way can I do an episode on Josh Jumps? Podcast, cozy called Hashtag. We'd have people live if you live. He's like down with the hip social future. You gotta get with it. I do hashtags or something. I only use like in jest, you know? Well this is sort of tongue in cheek. It's also a cool way of like if people have searched for you, that's probably a bazillion way that people lives podcasts, but there's only one that's going to start with a Hashtag.

Speaker 1:          00:01:34       So you put it in a Hashtag and as well. Prison will be the first to come up. I use it for the UFC only like Hashtag UFC 91 93. If I'm talking about like an event. Yeah, do that. But hashtags are interesting because if you ever go to Hashtags, you ever go to like Hashtag black twitter? Yeah. I never do it. Jesus, it's, it's made. That's where he spends 23 hours a day. Well, you know how sometimes sometimes you don't need to go to them because they come to you, but can you say something? Then you get taken out of context. Then you can end up by some blog and then all of a sudden, like all over the weekend, I've been getting all these tweets just out of the blue about what fascism is. I was like, what? Who are these people and why they tweeting at me?

Speaker 1:          00:02:14       I don't even know. I didn't even know that I said anything about fascism. Well, it's because breitbart picked up something that I did on a segment on huffpost live last week and write something up about it, about how apparently I implied that Donald trump was a fascist, which actually didn't mean because I don't think that he is, but. And all of a sudden I'm in the Hashtag like I'm part of the Hashtag about fascism without even choosing it. I believe that most people who use the term fascist or fascism don't really exactly know what the term meant. You're totally right, so let's help them out right now. Let's find the official definition of fascism because I think most people get it wrong. Fascism means and authoritarian and nationalistic, right wing system of government and social organization, so people use that. There's other definitions of of course, but extreme right wing authoritarian.

Speaker 1:          00:03:03       People use that for a lot of like non fascist reason. That's true and I probably used it sloppily myself in the context in which bright pub was picking me up and they would have a point if, if I do come across as saying that Donald trump is a fascist, but all the people who were tweeting back at me with saying, fascism isn't right when you idiot, it's left wing and slept way. Socialism is the real fascism. You don't understand the meaning of the word, so I just responded with an with a link to the Oxford dictionary, which also includes the wood right wing in it. Like, yeah, it's mostly considered right when we. When people are using it in the left wing circles now or about left wing circles because they're using it and the authoritarian context because that is, I think that's applicable because a lot of what is going on in like really extreme social justice, leftwing type organizations or groups is that they're trying to control behavior and they're trying to mitigate criticism. Like you can't criticize these concepts because these concepts are supported by social justice. And um, I've got an interesting study on that, but I wanted that I brought for you. And before I get to it, I want, I don't want to forget what I was just thinking when you were talking about how here we are in the valley village outside. Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, sunshine trees. Very good. That's a very good. Betty Jo. Thank you. Practiced that all day. It was not a little one. I want to hear it again.

Speaker 1:          00:04:26       I'm going to put that as my ringtone. I do it too. It will never hear your phone put up really, really, really loud. So I was in Beirut briefly a few months ago and he was standing on the rooftop of this swanky hotel looking out over the Mediterranean and looking at evidence the houses and I was like, he's just like an idyllic, beautiful part of the world in terms of its natural beauty and I could practically swim from here to the Greek islands, help people. Ah, basically, right. The refugees and I had just been in the Greek in Athens as well, which is like geographically, physiologically Italy, Greece at the same as these fucked up parts of North Africa and Israel and Palestine and been Lebanon and not to mention Syria. And I was like just struck by how capable we are a fucking things up as paypal because the actual geography is the same.

Speaker 1:          00:05:25       Like those waves at the same waves as the ones on the Italian Riviera. But the Italian Riviera is the Italian Riviera and this shit hole is this shithole through no difference of climate or some old. The booties are still there. The booties are the same, but religion and politics just has an endless capacity to, to screw things up. You could call it religion or politics, but it's really just power. It's human beings trying to achieve power and you could do it through whatever modality you choose, but the reality is it's just people that are trying to control other people and trying to gain things, but I think it's in particular tribes trying to control other tribes and politics and religion make you much more likely. It make it much easier to be tribal, much easier to not be an individual story, but it's sort of. But isn't the argument against that.

Speaker 1:          00:06:13       What we were just talking about one in terms of social justice warriors and people calling people fascist mean that you're, you're, you're, you're in a tribe. If you are on the extreme left or the extreme right, you're in a tribe. You know when you talk to right wing people, they're almost incapable of not bringing up liberals or the liberals think they don't just bring up their own concepts in their own thoughts. They'll immediately disparage liberal ideas. Like immediately, you know, they'll tell you, well, you're a liberal, you know, you, you believe in this and this and that. So you're a liberal and then like immediately like downplay your ideas. That's a tribal. Absolutely. That's politics. It's religion as is. And social justice worries will do the same thing. They'll do the same thing about. I mean my, you know, the first, the first time I came to your attention was with that interview with.

Speaker 1:          00:06:57       So he parked the cancel Kobe activist. Right. And convincing still one of my favorite. When you just broke it down to her, you're like, this is so fucking unbelievable. And you could tell she was just like devastated that you even had the balls to question her to people that hadn't, hadn't seen it, that she wanted to have the, have the Kolbe a report canceled because apparently it was racist and I did an interview with her on huffpost live. Well, it was nice for people who don't even know the show. Kobe plays a character. He plays an extreme left wing kind of goofy character, excuse me, extreme right wing, kind of goofy character. And in that context of that character, he made a joke about racism. It was a joke about racism and in that it was a funny joke. Do you remember what the joke was?

Speaker 1:          00:07:46       Yeah, I do. It was Dan Snyder, who, who's the head of the Redskins, right? Who was saying that he. He said that he didn't have to change the name of the redskins because it was racist. He was going to set up a charity for native American and causes and Stephen Colbert and his right wing persona said that sometimes he'd been accused of doing jokes that could be considered to be offensive about Asian people, so in return he was going to set up the Ching Chung Dingdong Foundation for sensitivity towards orientals or whatever or whatever, and she found that offensive. Not really. I don't believe she really did it. I think she found it. It was a green light for her to attack and to use hashtag activism and to get them get some publicity. There's one story that's making the rounds today, a Kansas City University professor who in a class I'm about racism, a discussion about racism and discrimination. She used the word nigger and in using the word, all these students are trying to get her fired and she's been removed of her duties right now. She's been temporarily suspended under review or whatever their processes, but in just saying

Speaker 2:          00:08:56       the word, not saying someone is like, this is a word that people have issues. Let's discuss words that people have issues with. What are the origins of these words? Why are they problematic? What is, you know, what can be done about this? I don't remember. I'm not sure exactly what the context of her classes, but they. I'm sure it will. I'm sure the context wasn't. Let's go around accusing black people have being absolutely not. Absolutely not, but this is the same kind of thing. I don't believe anyone in that class was actually hurt by that. Well, we sort of found the green light and they attacked. Yeah. Don't we learn what to be offended by it? Yes. So it's possible that that someone felt like an initial kind of reaction of, oh my God, I just heard that word. That's good. I've been told that that word is completely unacceptable under all circumstances, and I've been told that I'm allowed to be offended.

Speaker 2:          00:09:43       Yeah, that's right. And in in date ought to be offended. Yes. And so like I was amazed by the power of that word when I first came to the states because they're only here is, it does, do we have this demoss would the end would like that phrase? Yeah. That's. I mean I'd never heard that until I came to the site. So in Australia it was completely unacceptable to ever to ever use the word nigger against somebody. You would just never do that. I was taught since the earliest days that racism is terrible, but you could talk about it in polite company. I mean you, if you. If it came up, you'd be able to discuss the existence of the word and nobody would ever say the word, but you guys have racism towards aborigines. That's pretty. That's pretty real over there. This is towards black people, right?

Speaker 2:          00:10:27       No, that's right. But there's this. There is a much, much, much bigger awareness of the kind of tragedy of the original sin. Of what happened when Australia was settled than there is here towards native Americans. I sort of regard native Americans as being the people who've really been screwed in this country. I mean not to, not that it should be a competition of like who's you know, who's suffering was worse. So like I'll put my slavery genocide more, right? That's right. Because I always hate it when, when we get into those games. But um, nobody even talks about, like in Australia, if you go to an award ceremony, for example, if you're at the grammys, every single presenter will come up and they will begin by saying, I want to start by acknowledging the traditional owners of this land that you had a windy people, uh, you know, they'll, they'll, they'll at least give a kind of politically correct nod to the fact that we occupied the country and basically wiped out an entire people.

Speaker 2:          00:11:21       And you know, you'll see aboriginal flags flying on Parliament House alongside the Australian flag. What the, I don't even know what the night of American flag is. Still even have a flag. I don't believe they did. I mean, if they did it, I mean, noted aborigines back then symbols, you know, they, they certainly had symbols that were indicative of different tribes or different regions. But I don't, I don't, I don't think they had flags. I could be wrong. No, but I mean aboriginals didn't have flags. Aboriginals didn't even have metal, so. Yeah. Right. Okay. I mean they were at the time when the British settled Australia and I always get accused when I say things like this have been politically correct, social justice warriors of imposing onto traditional societies. I have an idea of human civilization as being better if it's like industrialized than if it's not industrialized.

Speaker 2:          00:12:06       And because I'm like a white man who liked, totally thinks that like the 21st century is better than the fucking 15th century. Let me back up because it is better. Yeah. Yeah. They have, we have computers and the Internet, we have books, we have a lot of things that are better than like flint knives. So let's just having said that, you're such a wide, you such a white man, Joe. Uh, having said that, if you think about like the, the traditional anthropological conception of human evolution going from like the, you know, the, the discovery of fire and farming and then up through the bronze age and the INA agents on average and he's when the, when the British settled Australia were the least advanced civilization in the world by far. I mean we're talking a mosque and again, I like the politically correct. Pardon me?

Speaker 2:          00:12:54       It has to keep qualifying. They had been around for over 100,000 years. So they were doing something successful. Like it's only been 2000. Jesus. Well, let's rabbits are doing a good job. Did you just compare aboriginal Australians to rabbits? Did it in that context? Okay. I like, I like, I like you for that because I like analogies and I like being able to accept analogies without thinking that the person is saying that the two things are the same in every respect because I always get pulled up. Like I made a Hitler analogy the other day about I was talking to who was at Donny Deutsch. Do you know that guy? Yes. Um, and uh, he was talking about how he likes trump and I, and, and I might some parallel where I was like, he was, I was simply saying that like, he was like, he's popular, he's touching a vein.

Speaker 2:          00:13:38       I was like, yeah, but is that the only reason to respect somebody hit let's touch the vein as well? And he was like, he got all outraged on the air at the fact that I would like say Hitler. He was like, you can't do that. Like, how dare you. I'm Jewish. And I was, I was like, I'm not saying that trump is the same as Hitler, you idiot. I'm saying that saying that the criterion by which you were judging his success is floored. And I was using an analogy to do so. Well, he should be, he should be ashamed because he's doing the exact thing. We're accusing the extreme left up. He saw a green light and he went after it. That's right. And He, does he really think I'm a Nazi sympathizer or that I'm like shitting on it. And then. So then I was like, Hey, my grandmother was in the concentration camps and I pull a juke out on me and then I just moved right up. Fuck yeah, Donny. So anyway, area aborigines didn't, didn't have like metal and stuff. No, they were, I mean they were extremely primitive so far removed from what we consider to be advanced civilization that Australia felt it was okay to actually take their children and adopt them. And this was recent. This was in like the fifties, you know, until you know, until 19, 69 aborigines were classified in Australia as foreigner. Whoa. In other words, they want

Speaker 1:          00:14:54       not flora, it might've been a couple of floral aborigines, but uh, they were mostly like in the same category as Kangaroos now you couldn't dark, you couldn't kill him. He couldn't know. But I mean they weren't officially classified as full and it's just that they weren't classified as human, like they weren't considered to be people in the. So like you can't kill a chimp either. Yeah. Wow. That's a recent thing. But it's come a long way in the past 15, 20 years now. I think there's a general consensus that, that we really fucked them over a hope so kids are fucking babies no matter. I mean no matter how not to defend it, but this was at the same time that Jim crow was going on here. Right? I mean it's not, it's not like we were in a lightened our. Well, our forefathers were enlightened in the fifties about rice.

Speaker 1:          00:15:40       Yeah. Well the, everybody was pretty fucked up back then. I think it's very difficult for us to understand in 2015 what it was like in 1950 [inaudible] I think we assume that they should have known better. They should have been like us, but 100 years before them they were cowboys. That's they. They had horses riding trains and that's it. And 100 years before that they didn't even have fucking trains, you know, in 100 years before that mean you're, you're in the dark ages. Yeah. I mean you're 1,514 hundreds, a few hundred years removed from gingiss con. It's fast and it's like, I don't remember whether I've spoken to you about this before, but I was when I was in grace on the trip and I was just talking about, um, I was standing at the, you know, the Acropolis in Greece. I was expecting to be wowed like Altura PSA by all the Shia age of this thing.

Speaker 1:          00:16:28       Oh, I'm at the birthplace of Western civilization. And instead what I thought was, I'd actually just been back to New Zealand because my grandma died. She was one day shy of her 100th birthday. Damn. Almost made it 99 and 364 days. So she was just born premature. She would've had that mean when you were born. So arbitrary. I think labor, yeah. That's a good way of thinking about it. If you take her from like the, the third trimester. Oh yeah. She made it. She made it from the quickening. Yes. She made it from the yes soul made it 100 percent. And what I was struck by at the Acropolis, the Parthenon was not like how old human civilization was, but it was like my grandma, her lifetime is a manageable period of time in my brain. I can think about that in a way that when you talk to me about something that happened 50,000 years ago, it's just meaningless. So when you talk about the size of the cosmos or a light year or something, it doesn't like I might be able to understand it intellectually, but it just washes off in my head. I don't know what I'm talking about, but the lifetime of my grandmother, that's a manageable span of time. I can imagine. A hundred years. Yes. And you know what? This acropolis at the dawn of Western civilization, before humans had even invented anything that we would recognize as being civilized in terms of laws and procedures and technologies that only 100 of my grandma's.

Speaker 2:          00:17:50       Yeah. Yeah. How about this one? Sorry, it's 40 140,000 users. 40 of my grandma's. Jesus was 20 of my grandma's a nuclear weapon. My grandma was born during the [inaudible] campaign and World War One. Hitler wasn't even a name that her parents knew when she was born. The depression hadn't happened. The bomb hadn't been invented, let alone computers. How faster things going pretty fast. Like how recently was it over the span of geological time that we would monkeys, effectively, monkeys,

Speaker 3:          00:18:25       they believe to 100,000 years ago. Human beings, we're in this form, they're bullied, but it changes depending upon the fossil record. Like when they add new evidence, like they just found a. like within the last couple of weeks, they've recognized a new subspecies of human beings and ancient subspecies. They found a giant tooth, so they're. They're. They're finding fossil records that pretty much pretty much coincide with the established belief that people are 200,000 plus years in this form. Like you could take a person from 200,000 years ago, they'd probably be considerably smaller than us because they didn't get a lot of food and you'd put them in a movie theater and they would look just like you were. I maybe was teeth. Yeah, long. They kept your mouth shut, you know, we showered them, trimmed whatever fucking weird hair they have. You know, they're probably just very strangely Harry, but you know, obviously in the fossil record we're not getting too much. It's very rare they find skin and hair, so they're just kind of guessing what they looked like on the outside, what they believe that about 200,000 years in this form, give or take 100,000 years. So that's pretty recent. More than what we have than take. Yeah. Yeah. Not really good. Give and take

Speaker 2:          00:19:34       what's most, what's most sort of frightening to me is how recently technology has become as powerful as it is, especially nukes and superimposing technology that was invented within the lifetime of my dad.

Speaker 3:          00:19:49       Think about what we just said, just that. What's crazy? Call it 300,000 years ago. 3,000 of your grandma's? Yeah, that's it. And we're monkeys. Yeah. Just 3000. Like a good size of theater show. Yep. Like you go to the Chicago theater, that's 3,700 people. That's a good spot to look at those people in that audience. If you get a full Chicago theater of 3,700 people, if every one of them lived birth to death to stop and think about that. That's fucking crazy credit, isn't it? That's crazy. It's fucking crazy. That's 300,000 years

Speaker 2:          00:20:29       and you don't even need to go that. I mean you didn't even take it that far before the kinds of lives that people will live living and the kinds of concerns that they had to concern themselves with was so parochial and they knew so little. I mean even just back to the Middle Ages. I mean think about having 50 of my. No, sorry. Five

Speaker 1:          00:20:48       of my grandmother's get us back to the Middle Ages. Five of them. That's crazy. 50. Get us back to before we had before the Parthenon. God, I mean we are hairless apes who just just now, just for right now, just tap into to have discovered the Adam amazing technology than the theater thing is really free. That's a good one. I like that. I love that was freaking me out because that's monkeys. I mean, we go back to like, we're basically fucking like the scene in 2001 when they're around the monolith. That's what we're talking about. So we're talking about say how many people, how many people do you fit in a big stadium? One hundred, hundred and 50,000, something like that, like 20 and football stage. And like the, uh, the place that we did in Australia for the UFC I believe is 70,000 people. And that was an enormous.

Speaker 1:          00:21:34       Was that the MCG that was at a, at a hod, they've started sponsoring everything since I left. So I don't even know what that would be now because I don't know, the big airline back then was in Sydney or Melbourne. Melbourne. I'd probably be the, uh, the cricket ground rent formally. The probably. It's got a retractable roof. Yeah, that's right. It was the site of the biggest UFC ever and it was 70,000 people and that's an enormous, enormous place. But they have football places like Jim, you're a football fan. What's the biggest spot? Uh, I don't know if it's the exact biggest Ohio stadium in Columbus for the buckeyes plays like a 110. They can fit in there and fill out eight officially thousand. What is that like when it's filled? I must be insane. Super loud. A I, the way they have the sound going into, it's a little bit of bounce off each other being in it. So it's, it's an insane. That's good. We've got to be with the colosseum was like ingrown and half, half white, but there's, there's crazy people are drunk as shit yelling at each other and there's fights all over up into huge stadiums that are like a hundred hundred and 10,000. So let's say 100,000 stadium. Right, right. It's a big place, but if you do use your analogy of Chicago. My grandmother analogy, that's 10 million years.

Speaker 1:          00:22:45       Oh my God, what were we 10 million years ago? We were rodents. Well, when did the dinosaurs die at 75 million years ago. Apparently we were a type of almost like a shrew looking road and that's what we were. That's the current. That's what really makes evolutionary deniers angry, you know, the people who are just shitty little rats telling me that I was at Ohio state football game filled paypal a go. I wasn't true. The crazy thing is that the science deniers, the evolution denies other ones who are more monkey like than the ones who believe in science. True. That was an old bill Hicks bit is he just do think about people being uninvolved, the people that don't believe in evolution or the most looked the most unevolved. Exactly, yes. Right. Yeah. Well it's, it's too hard for us to. I mean, we're sitting here, we're not science deniers and we're looking at the age of your grandma 100 years and we're just going back a

Speaker 3:          00:23:45       few grandmas and we're like, fuck.

Speaker 2:          00:23:48       Well this is the first time. I've been amazed by that though because I. Although you know, when else I had this feeling was Richard Dawkins has this cool analogy where he says, imagine he's talking about how evolution denies. I keep wanting to say climate deniers evolution. Denies we'll. We'll talk about how there were these gaps in the fossil record. Right? And how like, well, what happened to the species that were interim species in between the species that we find Richard Dawkins tries to make the point. The whole concept of a species is something that we sort of retroactively superimposed onto things because lots of animals, because the vast majority of animals die out and don't manage to succeed in this world. The vast majority of mutations fail. But he says, imagine getting a book. Imagine getting a picture book like a high school year book and it's got your photo in it on the last page and the page before that is your mother's photo on the page before that is her mother's photo in the page before that is her mother's photo.

Speaker 2:          00:24:45       Right? And you go back and back and back and back, all the way back to the first dawn of life. Hundreds of millions of years ago. And each, each page is going to be, is going to basically look like the page before. It isn't going to be a point at which like the shrew becomes a monkey. Or like, you know, some amphibious creature becomes a shrew. Every child looks like it's parent, but as you flipped through the pages of this book, it's such a thick book. The overtime, like one of those little cartoon figures that you could draw and it looks like it's moving on the page. You just stopped morphing back, back, back, back, back until eventually you're a fucking fish, but it's. Well, you know, your great, great, great, great. Grandma is just adding enough grades. Yeah, and that's what people don't understand. It's just has to be a really, really, really, really, really big book.

Speaker 3:          00:25:39       Well, our concept of time is just, it's too hard. We'll look at it this way. Look at the changes that a person takes over the period of their life. Look at a person from, you know, think about a child and then turn that child in your grandma before she died. That's a very different physical looking thing as age sets in. Yeah, sure. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of changes that go on nature, like the growth of animals, death of animals, of plants and things along those lines. There's all sorts of growth and death and all sorts of changing and while we're looking at it in a static form, you'd, if you go outside and look at those trees, they look exactly the same as they'd looked yesterday and it takes a long time before you recognize like, oh, this fucking things, growing,

Speaker 2:          00:26:22       feeling that, feeling that myself kind of for the first time, like my birthday yesterday, and uh, I've gotten to that age where, you know, I don't really care about. I didn't really know. Like when I booked this trip, I didn't even know that it was my birthday. How old he is today, 38. That's when you start denying it. I'm 48. So really start denying it, denying what getting older and attention to has not

Speaker 1:          00:26:44       even important to me. Why I'm concentrating on the present. I live in the moment, Joshua, he just sees it. It's a comforting bullshit as well. When you get to be like 78, just like, what do you do? I mean, what are you going to not parasail because you're 78. No, that's right. But I think that the most of it is true though, that like, you know, age is on the inside because I can feel that now at this age I just have to do a ship more work and not to feel crappy and 20, 22, it's just everything is great. Your body is just automatically functioning exactly as it should now. Like my ankle will just occasionally hurt. You know, that didn't happen when I was 22. I remember that. I actually remember the first time in my life when I was getting out of a car and as I got out of the car seat I went. I was like, what the fuck was that just grunt as I was getting up and you wanted to, you know, just a very small like just to get out of a car seat. But you know, just like, like you might, it's not a big deal. It's just like a young teenager never, never just leaps out of the cost seat was an old person. Gets out of the car seat going. That's a good point. I might notice when I, for the first time,

Speaker 3:          00:27:57       yeah, it's like I'm old, I'm getting old, got to exercise into my thirties and I see other things. Nature is trying to kill you and in nature would like you to give in to the same decay that you see in animals and the forest and what have you. It would like you to just accept the natural process, but us in our clever little minds have figured out how to mitigate that process at least slightly with exercise and nutrition, proper rest and supplementation, hormone supplementation and going to the doctors and new inventions and cryo therapy and all this crazy shit that people figured out how to just put the brakes on this fucking have it inevitable demise.

Speaker 1:          00:28:35       I know we're living way too long for nature. Nature loves us up until we're in our late teens, early twenties. Yeah, but by now I've been like, I've been coming sperm for decades. Nature's like you must have had kids by now, right to you. Too much information. I think everyone can. Everyone can figure out that. I've probably been able to come since I was a teenager. Maybe gone tantric, you might be one of those dudes to come inside them and re re, re vigorous there. Is that a real thing? Do they. Can you actually consistently orgasm over a long period of time without coming?

Speaker 3:          00:29:05       The problem with all that, and I'm sure I'm going to get tweets about this, is everyone who practices it is a fucking lunatic so

Speaker 1:          00:29:13       you don't know because you haven't actually tested it out. Yeah, so if you talk to them, you know, they'll tell you, yes, I completely come inside. I come internally, I absorb, I reabsorb and the energy that I get from that, it's so much more amazing than the energy that you would get from an external orgasm and then they just get like really into talking to you about tantric. Annoying. You know, I mean they do it, but is it by contracting that muscle, the muscle is topped with a paid his name. I'm forgetting between your bowls and yet know there's a. there's a particular muscle there which apparently if you, if you learn to build it up, like be doing exercises throughout the day, then it can. It will compress and it will push against, uh, the, whatever the, that tube is called. I'm not really medically today, the decor.

Speaker 1:          00:29:57       So it's like a mail key goal, right? Yeah. Have you ever seen that Russian lady that can pick up? I think she can carry like 32 kilograms for the pussy. It might be more than that. More than 70 pounds I believe. I haven't checked. Yeah. She has this ability to like, I guess they put like a ball and then attach a string to a ball at the end of the string is a weight and she puts that ball inside of her pussy and just locks down on that motherfucker and then can literally lift up like 70 pounds of weight. It's impressive. I've been, I've, I've stood, I've stood at one end of a strip club and had a in Bangkok, had a tie stripper five dots from the other side of the room out of her pussy and pop a balloon that I was holding it in my head.

Speaker 1:          00:30:45       Wow. And she was, she could find those things with such aim. I don't know why I was so stupid because I could have gotten taken an eye out, but what kind of speed? Speed, speed. Like uh, what? She must have been a good 10 meters, so maybe 30 feet away from me. Oh my God. She's firing him across the room fast enough to be able to pop a balloon with accuracy, with accuracy. That's insane. Now how is she doing this? And she have like her elbows to the back of her knees and she's got her like her pussy up in the air. No, she was standing up. I'm trying to picture exactly what position she was in. GSG was sort of kneel, kneeling and standing. Kneeling. Oh wait, no, sorry. Not, not kneeling. Bent. Knees bent. Standing Upright and with the thrust of the hips for shooting out what?

Speaker 1:          00:31:29       Bent knees. Standing up or facing you? Facing me. Wow. That's crazy. That doesn't even seem like that's like shooting a gun in the air when you're pointing at the ground. It didn't even make any sense. How did she do that? She might've had a hands on the ground. To be honest, Joe. I wasn't focused on her fucking position. I was focused on whether or not she was going to take my. I had my eyes closed most of the time. Well, if she had her hands on the ground now it makes perfect sense. So she's like a table table sitting upright. Yeah. How's she getting the air to launch that thing? That's what's confusing about that. It was so many things that she was doing like that. They have all kinds of tricks. They will concentrate. They were pink. It started out with ping pong balls, you know, all the classic things.

Speaker 1:          00:32:09       Also razorblades. Oh, it's not pleasant. It's an amazing what people will do if you're confronted with a town filled with drunk tourists who have already seen everything. They've seen more. Thai kickboxing fights were 16 year old kid's a fucking Shinde each other in the head until they go unconscious. They've seen legalized prostitution everywhere. Ladyboys everywhere. Everything is chaos. Just fucking scooters with 37 people piled on him. And what do they got to do? Do they have to adapt to its evolution? It's adapt or die. You know, you have to adapt. You have to figure out how to, how to, how to stand out. Well, you got to shoot a dart out of your pussy, honey. Just tips his head. Yeah. There's, I mean, you want, you want to make the argument that people are malleable. That's one of the best arguments. Like put that. That's

Speaker 2:          00:33:01       not to mention like, I mean I've been to shows there where they're just like, I remember the finale to one show where it was like they were about how many do you go to Thailand? Thailand is, I like to say that Thailand is sort of our Mexico. If you're Australian, it's nearby. It's cheap. It's beautiful. Uh, they were great beaches. How far is the flight? I mean everything's sort of far from for most Australians because Sydney and Melbourne are located on the southeast coast of Australia, so there's a lot of Australia to fly over. Australia is the same size as the contiguous United States. So you basically have to do the entire flight from like the equivalent of Miami to Seattle before you start entering Asiana air space. But from so from Australia, the country itself, it would probably only be two or three hours to Bangkok.

Speaker 2:          00:33:46       It's only like an hour or two to Indonesia and Singapore from Sydney. Then you've got to add on an extra six hours just to get out of Australian airspace. That's amazing that you guys are the same size. That Australia's the same size as America as far as the continental or close to it. But there's only 20 million people, so there's less people than California. We have half. We have, yeah, mean two thirds of the population of California in an area the size of the United States. If you get rid of Alaska. So bad ass country. I fucking love it there. I was just there. I know you were. Yeah, that whole upset.

Speaker 1:          00:34:16       I had a great fucking time. I did stand up there to the Palais theater. It's fucking gradable. I love it up there. Down there. Wherever the fuck it is. Depends on which way you go. Exactly. If you go north you can get there. You'll get there eventually the gloves round chair spinning. The fucker doesn't stand still. But uh, it's, I love Australia. It's an awesome country. Really is. It's great. They're cool as fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Policies are nice. It's great. That's the, that's my number one go to spot. If the apocalypse happens, if north the North America falls apart, Australia is pretty much self supporting. It's a democratic really cool. Nice people. Yup. Last spice, plenty of animals to eat. Plenty of land to fish. She, I mean you've got the whole South Pacific right there. Yeah. You just can't. You got to watch out for your fucking killer jellyfish.

Speaker 1:          00:35:02       Everywhere you turn you have something that can kill you. That's true. They have. If people don't know you got to look up this thing called box jelly fish because they have, they get a bay filled with box jelly fish and they'll say don't go in the water, the box jelly fish or they're instantly. How do you say? Straight off. Straight off. Kelly. Australia off. Yeah. And they will kill you instantly. Like there's just paralyze you. When you go into anaphylactic shock. Dead, you're dead. I mean some people survive if you get hit with like one or two tentacles. But you're fucked man, for like years. Yeah. We'll get in the water. What the fuck does that mean? God Damn water. But in all of the areas of Australia first start, they're only there during certain times of the year. So you were there in summer and they're not.

Speaker 1:          00:35:44       They're not in Sydney or Melbourne, so didn't have to worry about them. They're, they're only in. Did you must have gone up to the Great Barrier Reef or something? No, no, no. I was just talking to people. I didn't go in the fucking water. I'm not retarded. You can go into the water and melons. They move around the water. I don't know if you know, it's just like, it's all connected. They could just travel to, you know, that's like saying that you're going to get eaten by a great white shark and Alaska, Alaska don't go in the water and Alaska if it's connected to where the great white sharks live. So just never. Anyway. Water. It's the same water. We're talking about gigantic distances as far as we know. As far as we know, they don't go there, but they could. It's like, no, they couldn't be too cold for him.

Speaker 1:          00:36:20       If you knew that the woods, the woods were filled with werewolves, but only in a certain time of the year, would you go during the full moon? No, you wouldn't answer for you. Depends on what is that? What you're saying is basically like you shouldn't go hiking in Panama because there are bears in Canada. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, there you go. So we've got a, we've got a, uh, Jamie's just bring up the fingers are brainstorming is a dangerous. Don't swim in these waters between October and May. Severe box jelly sting you. So what do they emergency treatment? Oh, that's one of those. They have a bucket of vinegar and so it doesn't, you're still fucked. There's a, um, there's a species called the era Kanji, which I can't remember whether it's the same as the box jellyfish or not. Someone's going to tweet me now that I've said that, and it was a case where these scientists on the Great Barrier Reef that was studying the ecology and they're almost invisible.

Speaker 1:          00:37:08       Every tiny small little jellyfish with extremely long tentacles. And um, they do the same thing as the box jellyfish if they're not the same thing as the box jellyfish. And they had, they had a, uh, like a cotton bought a bottle of era Kanji in water and they put it in the fridge and a dude came in and drank the water drinking water and died instantly. Oh my God. Yeah. Jesus Christ. What a label on it. You already get fucked up fucking skull and crossbones on that Shit. Yeah, there you go. There's an energy that is, that little tiny thing will kill you. Yeah. What the fuck man went bad and us? No, you need to clean your water out of is filled with the enemy. Those are murderers. She gets. Some government is saying that we're not going to let any or congee into the country anymore.

Speaker 1:          00:37:55       That is insane. It's insane. That little tiny thing can kill you. Yeah. That is unbelievable. I made only Americans. Mike, a big deal out of how dangerous things in Australia is. You fuckers are used to it. It's like the lady with the ping pong balls coming out of her pussy. That's normal in Thailand. I mean the reality about Australia is everyone's. We've, we've managed to export this. Steve Irwin, the crocodile hunter, vision of Australia as big as if we're all like a rugged outdoorsman who live in the, in the bush, in the outback. Duality is almost half the country lives in to big cities and we were all sitting around swilling shodan and drinking lattes, complaining about property prices and sitting on yachts and going to the beach. A very few Australians live in the outback. We're very urbanized country. We don't. I mean America is much more, has much more regional variance in that, like there's no equivalent of the south in Australia, in the Midwest statement.

Speaker 1:          00:38:46       Melbourne is a. was incredible as far as like the food. The food was amazing, isn't it? Yeah. Coffee and the food and the wine. Oh my God. Like you. They know how to live. Yeah, we're doing it right yet, but get killed everywhere, but that's my point. Jelly fucking not coming into the hub. A couple of those brown snakes as well. They're not coming into into downtown everywhere. You can find them. My friend Adam, my friend Adam Green tree, he lives out there and he told he he works, uh, he, uh, his uh, business and something involved minds and uh, they'll, they'll be working like digging holes and um, you know, uh, doing stuff out in the bush, I guess you guys call it the bush and they'll just find these brown snakes which would just fucking kill you. They bite you and you're dead. Yeah.

Speaker 1:          00:39:34       Yeah. Well, we'll find them. Actually people haven't died from a snake bite or a spider, but I don't think since all of the antivenoms were discovered in the early eighties because every, every local medical center has the only antivenoms. How long does it take for a brown snake? Achillea Alice. Oh, okay. Yeah, you've got a little bit of time and most Australians are trained in knowing how to basically, you know, obviously put a [inaudible] on so that you can, maybe you suck out the venom and spit it out and identify what the snake was. Well, I find rattlesnakes on my property out here all the time. How long do they take to kill you? It'll kill you. It'll take a few hours, but it'll fuck you up. I've had my dogs bitten three times. I've had to have them go and get antivenom. And for people if you're broke, it's fucked because you don't have any money.

Speaker 1:          00:40:17       It costs thousands of dollars. This antivenom stuff and you know, otherwise you're going to watch your dog die because they swell up. Like the only way I found out they got bit because I knew that they were barking and barking and barking. So I went outside and said, ah fuck, there's a rattle snake. And so I killed a rattlesnake and then, um, they seem okay, but then all sudden I see some swelling on their face. I'm like, God it. And so that I have to take him down because they'll rattle. Snake will bite them and then pull away and still be alive and invite, bite them again. And so their, their face just swole up like cartoon and just like water balloon. Now they're finding a day or so. Yeah. Good. It's just expensive. Um, I mean if a person gets bitten in Australia, obviously they don't have to pay because we have communism.

Speaker 1:          00:40:55       That's a good, that's a good communism, you know that I get really pissed off when people talk about healthcare and healthcare in America and this, this idea that somehow or another it's better to not have people covered with medical insurance and then there's always been medicaid and there's always been, for extreme example, people have had medical issues that have put them in severe debt and this doesn't. I don't, I don't think that we shouldn't have private private care in terms of like the best doctors and the best surgeons should be allowed to be compensated for their excellence. I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but the idea that we don't have some sort of. I, we have roads that are taken care of by our taxes. Why the fuck do we not have medical insurance or or medical care? That's just standard and this is exactly what we're going to talk about on my podcast.

Speaker 1:          00:41:47       Hashtag we the people live which is to, which we're going to do immediately after this because I want to talk to you about Bernie Sanders and I want to talk to you, but if you're talking about right now too, we can do it, but we do it later now. Whatever. Freaking people out there like what the fuck I got to download something else, but it's. I just think that a country that cares about its people, one of the most important things is the safety and the health of the people. Like, okay, well we shouldn't have. You shouldn't have to pay for the police. You shouldn't have to pay for the army. It shouldn't be something that comes out of your check. Like, you know, Oh, you want to call the police? Well, we're going to require a credit card. No, no guys breaking into my house.

Speaker 1:          00:42:23       Well, uh, do you have a current credit card? Like, no, no, no, no. We need the cops. I mean, I hear people like rush limbaugh saying, should we buy everyone a car? Yeah, he was a fat fuck. Well I don't listen to him. Do you remember fucking pill popping asshole Al Franken was on, was on lead them and promoting his book about a rush. Cold. Rush limbaugh is a big fat idiot. Remember he wouldn't be able to write that book today because he'd be fat shit. That's probably true actually. And let him in. His first question is uh oh. That's an interesting title. How'd you come up with that title at all? Goes well for a start. He's, he's very, very fat.

Speaker 1:          00:43:01       I love Al didn't even lose a lot of weight though. When he got on Oxycontin's it's taken like 99 pills a day. That fills up a lot of whole, like, you know, you think about how many 99. Oxycontin. That's a good handful of mass. Was He, is that what he's done? No, no, no. It's fairly standard for like severe junkies. Like it's they just start building up two and three to 12. This is why you then you then graduate to smack and why? We've got the heroin epidemic that we do in places like too hard. You got to shoot it. Like it's really easy to swallow those pills. You can snort it, you can smoke, but you're also. You're getting this inexact amount. When you just take a pill, you have one pill, you throw it down, your fats do 99. That's a WHO's taken a lot.

Speaker 1:          00:43:44       Pull that up Jamie. Find out exactly how many he was taking. He was taking so much that and granted this was told to me by Alex Jones, so I don't know exactly if I can authenticate the brasses particular states like that quote, but he said that that was why he went deaf because do you remember rush limbaugh was going deaf, but he had like a real medical explanation for when you overdose on opiates. When you take massive amounts of opiates, it affects your central nervous system in such a profound way and it affects your life, like your entire physical body in such a profound way that it's possible. You could induce hearing loss. I mean I have sympathy for the guy just because he's caught up in what is a problem beyond any individual's sort of control, like the, the, the problem of over prescription of opiates in America and like drug addiction.

Speaker 1:          00:44:34       Did you see that study, but it wasn't. He wasn't overprescribed. He was actively seeking out these prescriptions. He was in Florida, but it's an. It's an. I mean, it's an addiction. It is an addiction, but he was also a massive hypocrite. That was totally, totally bad. People really disagree with almost everything he says. I have a grudging admiration for him as an entertainer and a broadcast because they think he's so great. Well, he speaks very confidently. Well, he's so good at like saying at getting you into a position in which his bullshit sounds reasonable and like drawing a kind of a line of logical fallacies in such a way that you end up thinking, yeah, this guy's making a lot of sense. What's interesting is that he was really hamstrung and broken down when he called that a woman, a slut who was trying to get birth control, like she was trying to get a.

Speaker 1:          00:45:26       She wanted birth control to be covered by her university. I'm sure it's some sort of insurance and you know, he started calling her a slut and St Louis terrible things about it, but I believe she needed birth control because of another medical ailment. It wasn't just. I might be wrong about that, but it might weigh the weigh what his argument was and it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about where he starts with something simple. He's like, what do you call it? A woman who wants to be paid for sex. That's a pretty good. You've got to get rid of the Australian accent.

Speaker 1:          00:45:58       I'm not saying I do rush this. I wouldn't do. I wouldn't say I wouldn't claim to be and trough so, but like he ended up getting two slot because his logical argument was right. She wants to be paid for something that is only needed. If she wants to have recreational sex. Well what do you call someone who we paid to have recreational sex? A prostitute. Jamie, find that out if you get a chance. But I do believe that she needed it for another reason. There's other reasons why women take birth. True. Absolutely. Like they, like women with severe acne take birth control. Um, there's a lot of, there's a lot of other things at birth control can help, but either way he's a fat fuck of a dummy. He is not that there's anything wrong with being a fat fuck. Some of my best friends are fat.

Speaker 1:          00:46:42       Fuck. Nothing wrong with being overweight. Ladies and gentlemen. Well, there's something wrong for you. It's not healthy, but you know, you could fix that. It's hard, but you could fix that. Just as easy as it is to get off of heroin is easy. It is for rush limbaugh to get off heroin, he'd get off sugar and simple fucking carbs and all that stupid shit that makes you balloon up like that. Maybe just walk on a treadmill for 30 minutes. Tara morning, Tara hard for people to change their patterns. It's hard for people to get excited about doing something that's difficult to do. That's going to be ultimately beneficial for them because it makes, it drains your energy in the short term. You know, you work out if you're out of shape, you ever seen an attache person workout? Yeah. Fuck man, horrible. I've taken people to the gym that don't work out like come on, come to the gym with me. We'll just do a little bit of a workout and you get them on the elliptical machine and just go, we're going to do 20 minutes

Speaker 3:          00:47:30       and the elliptical machine and you look over five minutes in there, ready to fucking die. I mean there they turned white like their face turns flush. It's crazy. It's weird to watch. You watch them struggle and then you get them to the weights and they just, they can't do anything. They're so tired.

Speaker 2:          00:47:46       Did you see the study that came out recently about the huge increase in the, in the death, right? The fatality rate of white people between the age of 35 and 50, I think it was. No. So there's a spike which epidemiologists are saying is as noticeable in the data as the aids epidemic was in the 19 eighties and there were three causes. Lattes? No, I thought it was going to be diet. Like when we're talking about this, I thought it was going to be hard to say. So something that's related to diet and exercise, it's suicide, it's booze and its drug overdoses. Wow. And this is the only demographic group in America where the numbers are going up.

Speaker 3:          00:48:25       Well I think there are, there's a lot of people that live a very unsatisfying life and they got roped into living this unsatisfying life because someone told them that they have to make a living, that they have to make tough choices and they have to go do things that they don't want to do and then, you know, find a good job with a fucking plumbing supply company or some stupid shit they don't really want to do when they really want to be a musician or whatever. And then they just lived, pressed and there's. I think that's a giant percentage of people.

Speaker 2:          00:48:52       Yeah. And it's getting worse. I was talking yesterday on facebook to a buddy of mine in Australia, Jacobstein. Hey Jack. I'm sure he'll be Liz Taylor. He's a big fan of yours fucker. About hell, but now we just stopped. Just ripping out fuckers a good thing in America. We call each other fuckers all the time. Yeah. It's like a blue in Scotland would be like, he's a good cop. He's a good con. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, we were talking about how like, you're not allowed anymore to have any feelings as a white man that had anything other than guilt about being a white man. Well, firstly, acknowledge your privilege. Privilege,

Speaker 3:          00:49:29       your white privilege before you even talk about what white people that's foreign aren't around.

Speaker 2:          00:49:33       What about his gender? People of color. Okay. Uh, I was just listening. I was just listening to a, you know, Sam Harris, right? Yeah. So it was just listening to the latest episode of his podcast where he's talking to this Guy Douglas Murray, who's this English conservative, and Douglas is saying that, uh, that when the, when the, when the nuke. Finally, when the Jihadi nuke finally goes off, what we're all going to be talking about his transgender pronouns. Right. It's like that be the discussion about whether to called them. He, she, they was a at the point when like real shit's going down. Like we're so distracted by so many little semi little cultural pieces of bullshit at the moment. We're losing sight of the big picture.

Speaker 3:          00:50:17       I think it's because it's too easy to get by these people that are looking. I think again, it's. It's very easy to live today, much easier than it has been in an important time and I think also it's very easy to communicate today much more easy than it has been at any other point in time and before. Before this era, the era of instant communication, if you had an idea, it had to be really good to get it out there to the masses. It had to be really good. It had to go through editors and publicists that had to go to publishers. They had to print it. People had to read it and recommend it. It had to be verified. It had to be excellent. You know, if you were a hunter, s Thompson, like there was a lot of jumps. You had to go through lots of hoops, a lot of ladders he had to climb before you can publish, you know, a fear and loathing in Las Vegas today. Any fucking dipshit can start a hashtag activist, you know, some sort of a. You could start a tumbler blog or anything and that it can immediately be picked up by also by people that also want to be outraged and they'll go on this goddamn rampage and it's confusing as fuck. It's because it's so easy to get by. It's we, we were, we were like spoiled rich kids in a way. Spoiled, spoiled, rich kids with our ability to communicate ideas.

Speaker 2:          00:51:32       I mean, I think the lowering of the barriers is a good thing and a bad thing, right? I mean the, the flattening and the fact that I don't have to go and talk to a network executive or radio station owner about doing my podcast. I can just do the show that I want to do and put it out there is great, but you're right that like we've become the Douglas Murray. There's this British conservative columnist was saying he thinks that the problem is that there's a lack of. There's a, there's a supply and demand problem between social justice warriors and like racists because there aren't enough racist anymore. Right? So like the left used to be agitated by fighting all of these big good noble fights, but the like the fascists and the rice, it's an older people who they wanted to bring down have basically been vanquished.

Speaker 2:          00:52:14       So now they're not totally, but now they have to talk. Now I have to accuse people like me of being racist. I was accused of being racist the other day because I used the phrase to call a spade a spade. Whoa. And in the 1920 you got called a racist for that yet in Harlem, in the 19 twenties a spade was a bad word for black people, not just the 19 twenties. So that's like pretty recently. Was it because not in, not in Australian language. So even in like the seventies and the eighties, people would use it a disparaging the spades. Okay. So I'd never heard it, but apparently on racist now. So because there aren't enough actual racists to keep shouting it, so they have to stop shouting it. But it's a spade a spade is a card term. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3:          00:52:54       It's a term about playing cards to call a spade a spade. It's like a club or a spade or a heart like that is so fucking stupid.

Speaker 2:          00:53:02       I see. And also I posted something on facebook about did you see the Brouhaha about Meryl Streep's tee shirt, you know, so she's just finished shooting a movie in London called suffragette way in which she plays Emily Pankhurst, who was one of the great women's rights, uh, you know, campaigners back in the late 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds. It's about the birth of the feminism movement. And in 1913 pancoast gave this speech, his famous speech for, for women's rights in which he said that the women's rights movement will survive so long as there is a woman alive to hold up the flag of rebellion. I would rather be a rebel and a slave. So they do this promotional thing in which his meryl streep a wearing a tee shirt. I'd rather be a rebel in a slave, meaning I'd rather fight for my rights then be downtrodden as a woman in the early part of the 20th century.

Speaker 2:          00:53:55       Well, the Internet blew up with how racist Merrill is because she's not understanding the context of that. I mean there. Uh, and then so I put a suit or like, here are some of the tweets. I can't believe this is real. This is real. Someone said with a link to it that the word rebel is juxtaposed with slave in that quote, just, I can't fathom this. Someone else says then someone else tries to school. I'm says, the quote is from Emily Pankhurst who said it in 1913, Rally for women's rights to which the social justice warriors respond and I'm letting you know that it doesn't matter who said it, the quote is trash and another person, white women have said a lot of terrible things over the course of history. It doesn't mean you wear it on a shirt and it just goes on and on.

Speaker 2:          00:54:34       And I put it on facebook and just said, I'm glad that we're focusing on what's really important. And like a black friend of mine said, you know, just started attacking me for being an apologist for racism. Black friend of yours, who would black friend is this. Well, I'm going to name him. We don't have to name them, but fuck him. He knows you're not racist. That's stupid. This is damn it. The problem is there's not enough problems. That's kind of what I made about supply and demand thing, right. There's not enough actual problems for them to focus on. So like, so no. I think what I said, what I wrote on facebook was political correctness is exhausting and he wrote being black as exhausting. Okay. And I. Yeah. And I wrote, right? Fortunately that tee shirt has nothing to do with being black. And then he went off onto this thing about how like everything, you know, people that you have to understand how other people are gonna perceive things and you will have to be cognizant of always using the right words and it just ends up spiraling down into this situation where all of a sudden I have to be censoring every single word that I say in case some idiot misinterprets it and doesn't understand the historical context that we're talking about.

Speaker 2:          00:55:40       The women's movement in like early 20th century Britain and not the fight against slavery in America, like buy it, don't buy it. I don't think people really offended by it. I think it's a green light issue. I think it's agreed. They look at Meryl Streep and that t shirt and if they understand the context of what she's trying to say, like if you. If you quote the original piece that it was taken from [inaudible], they still have a problem with that they're doing is just finding a greenlight green light. Like that's. I can go hit the gas. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. That's all it is. It doesn't make any sense. When she's. She's posting something or she has a a t shirt on rather that's taken from a historical quote. It's really simple. If you have an issue with those words because those words can be used in other

Speaker 3:          00:56:24       forms. Well that's your issue. It's your turn to make a big deal of it and that you have to be more aware and you have to be because being black is exhausting or being Chinese. We built the railroads for you to ride that railroad and not acknowledged the fact that Chinese people died during the making of that real fucking Christ enough that what we need is wolves. We need wolves at the gates. What we need is a fucking winter. We need winter's coming. We need to fucking black, but we've, we've just had Paris, the Paris attacks. Let's focus or in Paris. I bet it's like that, you know, nine slash 11 and after September 11th in New York, New York was fucking amazing and I hate to say this and it turns like this is not minimizing the victims or the families of the victims and horrible tragedy without a doubt.

Speaker 3:          00:57:10       No one, no one's denying that, but what I'm saying is we were in New York City, me and some friends when we were filming fear factor and it was about 10 months or 11 months after nine slash 11. My memory might be bad, but the point being people were noticeably more friendly, noticeably more, more like they were engaging. They would say hi to each other. The firemen came. I had a friend who blacked out because I gave her some California weed. We were, uh, were hanging out in front of this bar. It was all these people that work for fear factor and uh, you know, and uh, I busted out Joanna go, you guys want to get down or why? What do you want to do? Come on pussies and these, all these producers, they're like, okay, okay, we'll try. We'll try some. This is fucking space.

Speaker 3:          00:57:53       We'd just the deepest, blackest whole space we'd, right. She takes a deep pit and you see her eyes start to flutter and roll behind her head. And Luckily I was in a position to catch her and I moved in and we grabbed her as she was like, she was literally just blacking out on the concrete. That's some serious shit, serious weed. But it's apparently it can happen to certain people if you don't smoke a lot of weed. And she just decided, fuck it, let's give it a shot. Just took a big hit and you see her eyes fluttering and she just gave. So we called the fireman. The fireman came and it was like, like a nobleman on a knight on a horse had arrived. Everybody was so happy to see the firemen. First responders got so much love. It was amazing. It wasn't hundreds of colleagues had just died.

Speaker 3:          00:58:39       It was also the fact that people recognize the importance of having first responders having farm and having policemen and that they really felt it like in a deep real way. Like, thank you. Thank you for what you do. If it wasn't for what you, you do, we will be so much more danger. You're like, it's having a very real memory of them stepping in and risking their lives and helping people and seeing them covered with dust as they carried people out of the buildings. And we, we, we, we, we, it was like, it was solidified and people's memories. And then over the past decade or so you go back and it's back to being New York again. People don't look at each other. Fuck you. Like there was, there was a feeling of vulnerability that existed because we had recognized a real problem and we had gone through a real uh, but they had gone through a real moment of intense adversity. Did you do,

Speaker 2:          00:59:31       did you see in the wake of Paris, one of the things that I found interesting was this conversation around tragedy, hipster, trap, tragedy, hipsters. Did you hear about the hipster tragedy? Hipster is someone who the moment something like the Paris attacks happens, a start shitting on people who are pouring out sympathy online or changing their face, their facebook profile pictures to the French flag or something by saying, well, where will you, why weren't you out route outrage when there was a roof like, this is like this. I've got an article here in the stranger, which is the Seattle blog, entitled why putting the French flag on the space needle is racist?

Speaker 3:          01:00:07       What by Charles Modality? It's November 16. Why didn't anybody acknowledged the attacks in Lebanon? Why didn't anybody acknowledge the attacks in Nigeria? That was the point is, well, there's a real racist aspect to that and I think there's a real argument for.

Speaker 2:          01:00:23       So I figured, I think we have to be allowed to allow people to express sympathy. Yes. Uh, I also find it a bit fatuous when everyone starts pouring out, you know, all of it. There were certain fashionable things to care about, you know, it's a bit like the Kony 2012 phenomenon or something where all of a sudden everyone just jumps on some social media, Social Justice Bandwagon. But I feel like Paris is a bit different. Yes. People should pay attention to Beirut. Yes. People should pay attention to Nigeria and Boca. Harambe, yes. People should be more aware of what's going on. But as a Bama said in the wake of the Paris attacks, it is understandable for people to have a more instinctive, sympathetic reaction to a city that they know the city that they've been to a city populated by people like them who are doing things just like them going to see a soccer game sitting in a restaurant. Um, then they offer parts of the world where they think that violence is more commonplace. Like Nigeria, I don't think you can be belittling people for genuine expressions of sympathy. I certainly don't think that you should be accusing them of being racist.

Speaker 3:          01:01:26       I agree with you wholeheartedly. I don't think you should accuse people of anything negative for expressing sympathy, but I think that culturally when you look at the news and when you look at CNN and the people that are supposed to be responsible for letting us know what's happening in the world, that's where the issue lies. Like why are they concentrating solely on Paris? Why doesn't CNN have all this coverage of Lebanon in Nigeria that, that mirrors it. So you get this broad perspective of the actual world itself and say, look, this, this isis issue is not just an issue that happened to Europeans. This is an issue that's been happening all over the world for awhile now. Absolutely.

Speaker 2:          01:02:07       And CNN is fucking awful. I'm definitely not going to defense, can it? I mean, CNN is the worst example I think, of just following the most predictable line on everything. They try not to alienate anyone by being too left or too right and as a consequence they just a mush of ignorance and like parochialism

Speaker 3:          01:02:23       do you do? If you are Jeff Zucker, if you're the guy who runs cnn, what the fuck do you do? But you put Anthony Bourdain show on. That's a good move. Well, what else do you do? I mean how the fuck do you. Do you cover the news and like a broad way and also make it a profitable entertainment enterprise, which is what

Speaker 2:          01:02:42       I would like to think that there's a market for smart conversations about things, which is what I try to do at huffpost live and we don't get small numbers. I mean things oftentimes I'm surprised when I have a smart conversation about the relationship between Islamism to Islam and the plight of poor Muslims in the suburbs of European capitals where unemployment is 35 percent and the demographics of the types of people in Iraq who are joining isis who were 14 years old during the US invasion and have just endured all of the rest of their lives basically being full of civil war and people being beheaded and strung up in the streets and who hated Saddam, but hate America and hate the West now for everything that they've been through. Like when we talk about a lot sort of stuff, some people are actually, you know, significant numbers of people were actually interested in hearing about it instead of meanwhile on CNN should the mayor of this city and in the midwest that has a majority Muslim population be afraid,

Speaker 3:          01:03:39       how can we can do that? So good, but you can't do a rush. That was a total American accent. No, you're right. I can. You know, it's. People are problematic and it's very difficult for people to separate their motives from, from the reality of the situation that they're reporting on to. Also, you're dealing with commercial interests. You know, you have advertisers, you have all these different things that have a say or at least an influence on what gets said. Whereas you don't have that. There's also the difference between broadcast and selective media. Your, your. You have a selective media outlet which means someone finds out about Josh Zaps from one of your many wonderful appearances all throughout the world and huff post live and all these different things. They get to know you. I like this guy's perspective. He's very intelligent. He's very articulate and then they seek you out and they find your thing to subscribe to it and then they go to it because they becoming a josh eps fan. Whereas CNN is at the fucking airport, you know, I'm waiting for my flight the other day and they have CNN and they're. They're showing these people doing these things and it's just. It's on. There's a difference between something that's broadcast and something that you select and I think when someone gets excited about something like what you do is someone who has chosen to go seek out your perspective and your point of view or it's very difficult to do that on a show like CNN or a network like CNN.

Speaker 2:          01:05:02       We have to be able to do better than we are. It like 60 minutes for all of its faults occasionally hits the nail on the head and does a good job and certainly used to and people watch it and watched it. Still cronkite used to direct John that there are good. PBS does a does a great job.

Speaker 1:          01:05:18       Broadly. I think NBC news does a great job just as a CCO as a whole collection. So Williams with the exception of Brian Williams. Although I mean like, who gives a fuck? Yeah, exactly. I never be a robot. A robot. That's right. Who gives a shit what he's to do his job. That's what they should do exist. You just have a fucking laptop there, but he is on your. On your point about what people are gonna Watch and seek out, there's a good piece in vox by Max Fisher after the all the criticism of like why didn't, why didn't the media cover the Beirut bombings? Because like one of the most popular, one of the most retweeted tweets the day after the Paris attacks was a tweet about why is the media covering this so much when they didn't cover Beirut? And uh, so Max Fisher says we did and nobody clicks on it.

Speaker 1:          01:06:07       We do. And nobody ever clicks on it, clicks at it or no one clicks on it. Then they just let it go and they just, at some point you have to at some point, if you're interested in having a thriving media business, you have to give people what they actually want, which is judged by what they click on. So, so they put Beirut at the very top of the page and then you know, what you get doesn't even register as a blip on the number of clicks. So then they downgrade it and then it ends up falling back onto the world section of the site. But I think you just nailed it because it's a business and that's where it becomes a problem and that becomes a problem is that it's an entertainment business. Like CNN is an entertainment network. Yeah. But they, they, they entertain you by showing you the real reality TV, which is the news, but much like reality tv, you know, if you live in a house with a bunch of people and they, they filmed six hours a day and then they water it down to 44 minutes on television or 22 minutes on television.

Speaker 1:          01:07:01       When they do that, then they're gonna. They're gonna do it the way they want to show it. They're going to chop out a bunch of other shit that you're not really interested in. And they're gonna paint a picture and they can edit it and paint that picture and a variety of different ways. But they're going to do it in a way that they think is going to be the most salacious. It's gonna be the most compelling for you to tune in so they can sell you a Toyota truck so they can, you know, advertise tide laundry detergent. You know, that's really what it's all about. Exactly. And I think that's, that's a real problem when you combine commerce with the dissemination of information. Oh, he was, he is the tweet. By the way, Jack Jones TV, uh, has a picture of an explosion in Beirut. No media has covered this, but rip to older people that lost their lives in Lebanon yesterday from Isis attacks.

Speaker 1:          01:07:43       Let's see how many retweets. So it's got that, that's been reached. Twenty, 57,750 times and like 43,000. One hundred and two times. The picture is not from the bay route attacks. It's from 2006 during the Israeli war against Hezbollah. And it's absolutely not true that no media has covered this. The New York Times covered at the Washington Post, the Ip, a hue and Ella was sent to cover the blasts. The economist had a piece on it, CNN even seeing ended it, the daily mail. So that's a fake picture that's interested in. That's right. That's from nine years ago. Long picture the picture that Angelina Jolie

Speaker 3:          01:08:18       tweeted too. She tweeted it. Yeah. Yeah. She tweeted it about the Lebanon attacks as well, so get on the fucking ball. Angelina, stop adopting kids. Those. Those are the tragedy, hipsters and investigated the veracity of the photographs. You post young lady, how dare she hashtag outraged. I'm Hashtag [inaudible]. Hashtag racist. How about that?

Speaker 2:          01:08:40       And now I don't know what to talk about. About, about, about Islam as well. Like the difficulty is what are you. I'm afraid of all of the, all of the right wing is taking. My greatest fear about terrorism is that we end up living in like a quasi fascist state because we overreact so much that every, like I got a little nephew who's two years old when he's 18 and he's traveling around the world like I did. Is he going to be able to sit outside in a cafe and, and relax or is he gonna have to walk through a metal detector every bloody place. He goes like, it's a good question. And is he gonna? Is He gonna have any privacy or is the NSA going to spy on everything that he does? And uh, we're gonna let it because we're so afraid of having a text like this.

Speaker 2:          01:09:18       And is he going to live in a pluralistic society or are we going to be so cowed either one way or the other way? Either we, we take out trump ID and oppress Muslims, which only exacerbates the problem. Or on the other hand, we become social justice, justice warriors who were like, this has nothing to do with Islam. Islam is a religion of peace. There's nothing to see here. You don't have to worry about the Islamists, which means that we end up with mini theocracies in our own cities where you basically have a liberal communities that don't respect women's rights and don't respect gay rights, you know,

Speaker 3:          01:09:48       don't respect but actively suppress. Yeah. I mean isis is throwing gay people

Speaker 2:          01:09:53       bathrooms. Yep. Yeah. And I don't know how we talk about this is the problem way. And I by make, by way I mean people like me who are broadly sympathetic to minority rights and who abroadly pro civil rights and want everybody to be able to live life however they want to. And I'm pro high levels of immigration, uh, and I'm not intolerant, I'm not as in a phobic, I'm certainly not racist or Islamophobic, but how do we talk honestly about the fact that at the fringes of Islam there is a big fucking problem and not yield that territory to the right wing because you've got this, the rise of these right wing. Can you imagine if there was an election this election, there is an election in Paris, in France next week. And how many more Paris is Paris attacks would you have to have before the National Front, the anti-immigrant racist party, one pallet in Sweden. Now the third largest party is a party that wants to close the borders completely. Well, I mean, you practically already got that on the gop side here. Well, no, not even. Not even remotely. Actually. I take that back because they want to, they want to close the illegal border, but they still believe in having a moderate levels of. Yeah, exactly. It's don't believe in having people like me coming in. Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 3:          01:11:02       So how do people that speak well with a cool accent? Yeah. You educated. Sure. Come on over, probably more educated than we are. Yeah. I think what we have here is a human beings classically react to tragedies and massive events. Uh, we have problems and then we have solutions and there's the solution is being debated and there's the extreme right wing answer to the solution to these problems which is close up. The borders are more military, more guns attack Isis. Let's go to war. Let's do this. Let's do that. I think we're also dealing with people like trump that are gigantic egos that have these platforms where they want to step up and they want to gather all this attention to themselves and point to themselves as the solution to this issue with their hotline stances. And I think what's going to happen is technology as it becomes more and more pervasive and invasive, and as we become more and more symbiotically connected to the ability to express ourselves through phones and through the Internet, I think the next level of this is ultimately going to be some level that allows people to communicate in a way that it's not just typing things down and it's not just watching a video online.

Speaker 3:          01:12:16       I think we're going to be able to communicate with each other in some sort of a neural transmitting manner. There's going to be some next step level of technology with it, whether it's a decade from now or two decades from now. There's gonna be it's gonna seem pointless to have phones. It's going to seem point. The idea of having a physical thing when you have to go to in order to access information is going to seem absolutely ridiculous. And once that happens, we're going to see what we see right now in the world where I think w, I think it's regardless of how crazy the world is, I think at least in America right now, this is absolutely the safest time ever. So when all this social justice warrior shit they were saying and all this craziness about outrage and Hashtag racism and Hashtag this and that, it's bad, but it's good.

Speaker 3:          01:13:06       It's good because it's all about sensitivity. It's good because it's all about inclusion. It's good because it's all about eliminating anything that's disparaging or racist or anything where you are marginalizing groups based on something that they can't control like what they look like or their sexual preference. And I think as we get deeper and deeper to this interconnectivity that we're experiencing right now, we're going to absolve a lot of our differences in grievances through our ability to communicate with each other and connect with each other. And I think we're experiencing like this adolescent sort of angst before we get out of the fucking house and go out onto the our own. I mean, we're, we're becoming adults as a civilization and along the way we're experiencing the fucking teenage hormonal rage that you know, a 14 year old has when they're still trapped in their parents house with the freedom that human beings are going to have in the future to communicate and express themselves is going to negate a lot of this Hashtag college racism or Hashtag college activism. I think what that's coming from is this, this feeling that a lot of people have that their, their, their ideas and their opinions aren't taken into consideration. That they're not taken seriously and that that's why they're overreacting and freaking out and walking through the fucking, the hallways and Dartmouth and the library. Black lives matter, black lives matter. Like what? What are they doing?

Speaker 2:          01:14:28       What do you have a greater ability to nail joe to communicate with each other than we ever have already. So recent. It's so recent. I mean, I take your point with certainly in the adolescents of our, of our species and, but I do suspect that you're looking at this through the prism of a mind that spends a lot of time thinking about things and a lot of time having experiences that, uh, that are uplifting and transcendence stay through. I'm trying to, trying to find a way of saying drugs, just drugs, but not just drugs, a float, tanks, meditation, whatever else it is that you've, that you do in order to gain a perspective on things that is beyond your own little tribe. My concern is whether or not there is a direct correlation between upgrading our, uh, the means of communication with you. That obviously the way that we currently communicate is going to seem completely antiquated in decades to come.

Speaker 2:          01:15:19       But what we've seen happen when, like when the Internet began, you sound to me a little bit like people who I would listen to in the 19 nineties who would say when once everyone is on the line, there's going to be no need for difference anymore because everyone's going to be able to communicate everything. And everyone's going to be able to be exposed to so many different ideas that you're not going to be able to be nclr anymore. You're not going to be able to be parochial anymore, trapped in your own little circle of beliefs. Because with the Internet, everything's going to be available at everyone's fingertips. So some people, yeah, there a futurist who was saying that of course what's happened is we've had the opposite effect that that the, the availability of communication has on a widespread scale has actually enabled people to silo themselves into little self thinking like communities of Sameness so that we're actually more divided than we've ever been because you can seek out only the information that comports with the way that you see the world. So I don't think that a technology is necessarily going to drive an awakening. I think the awakening comes from drugs and spiritual epiphany's and then the communication can be a tool to enact that, but I can just as easily see some communication revolution being manipulated by jihadis, the way that they currently use the internet and twitter to coordinate terrorist attacks.

Speaker 3:          01:16:32       I don't think it's an either or. I didn't. I, I definitely think that there are groups of insulated people that searched for confirmation bias and they, they stay within their tribe, but I think one of the reasons why they're so active now and there's more of them is because they're recognizing the inevitable future and that you really, you're not going to be able to insulate yourself in the past like you better get it in now while you can better stockpile that fucking food because the famine's coming. I think what you're going to experience in the future is going to be more and more deterioration of these insulated little tribes and I think that that's where we're. When people have to apologize for things, they would never have to apologize before people like w what we were talking about, like the Al Franken saying, rush limbaugh is a big fat idiot.

Speaker 3:          01:17:17       That was just a few years ago that he wrote that book. Maybe a decade ago. You, you can't write that book today. You couldn't put that book on the shelves. You wouldn't, wouldn't be supported. It wouldn't be supported by Barnes and noble, like you calling something a big fat idiot is fat shaming now and I think that this, this increased outrage is also increased sensitivity. It's also increased understanding and once the dust settles in the argument, then people have to like do you have to take into consideration the validity of other people's opinions? Whether or not you agree with them or not, you have to understand that it's just a matter of this, this broad range of people expressing themselves will slowly. It'll slowly come down to an understandable vibration.

Speaker 2:          01:17:58       I hope so. So let's just unpack two things that we're talking about. Someone not conflating two things, right? One is the social justice warrior debate here in the United States and the other is Islamism, and we're sort of kind of having two parallel conversations about that. At the same time in terms of social social justice warriors in the United States, I think I hope that you're right, that what they think that they're doing is being an extension of the great traditions of civil rights in America. In other words, that they being motivated by a sense of understanding. I just found a passion and an outrage against what they perceive as being outrageous injustice. My concern is that what they're also doing is buying into a long tradition of intolerance and a lack of respect for pluralism and for other people's ideas about things for other people's right to express ideas that they regard as being incorrect.

Speaker 2:          01:18:49       There's A. I mentioned earlier this study that I thought you liked that I bought. Let me just find it because it's good. It's so. There's this, uh, there's this professor called April Kelly and she's a professor of political science at Elizabeth town college and she's got a chapter in this new paper called the end of the experiment, the rise of cultural elites and the decline of American civic culture. And it's, it's this study which is called the General Social Survey, which looks at how tolerant or intolerant particular demographics of Americans are. Right. So they stopped by on. I'll get tangled up in my microphone here. I was getting too relaxed listening to you talk. I was like kicking back. I was like, getting out the popcorn, listened to Joe. Uh, so in the general social survey, they, they, uh, they propose a bunch of different groups and they asked people how much they would like or dislike that group of people, right?

Speaker 2:          01:19:36       Just to establish who we really, really don't like. The least liked group included in the survey was Muslim clergymen who preach hatred against the United States. Right? That's understandable. And the second least liked group among Americans, people who believed that blacks are genetically inferior, so racist. So then they ask people how tolerant they would be to, towards those, a person from that class of people giving speech, a public speech in their community and people in their forties, a more tolerant than people in their thirties and people in their thirties and more tolerant than people in their twenties when people in their forties, the proportion who say that a member that a Muslim clergymen who preaches hatred against the United States should not be allowed to give a public speech is 43 percent people in their thirties. Fifty two percent people in their twenties, 60 percent. So if tolerance means not like, oh, I support black rights, or I support gay rights, I support Trans Rights, but if it means respecting the right of someone who you really disagree with, to express that opinion, then young people are actually more intolerant now than older people. They're more tolerant towards homosexuals and atheists, but that's because they like homosexuals and atheists more than older people do. Right? That's not tolerance. Tolerance is, is not a measure of liking someone, but a willingness to extend political freedoms to people who you disliked when young people are less, less willing to do that.

Speaker 3:          01:21:07       Well, I think what you're saying though is they're less willing to accept hate speech, which they think are dangerous or dangerous conversations. They think that someone who is a Muslim clergymen, who wants to express the hate of America, it's dangerous because he could promote terrorist attacks. Someone who thinks that black people are genetically inferior to white people is dangerous because they could promote racism or they could promote someone confirming their racist beliefs and then instead of becoming educated, are becoming enlightened. They go with the initial racist instincts and they go, I was right. You know the white man is superior, you know, and they're, they're, they're worried about hate, right?

Speaker 2:          01:21:49       We're just talking

Speaker 3:          01:21:50       both. Both those things are about hate.

Speaker 2:          01:21:53       This is Meryl Streep's Teesha at saying better, a rebel in a slave about, hey, because it is to, is to a lot of people in their 20 people. How many people? Well enough people that she has to put out a press release about it. I think like, I don't think there's anything. I think we are better off living in a society where bad ideas are exposed to conversation. I mean, you know, sunlight is the best disinfectant. You want bad ideas out there. You want a big roiling conversation where people who are stupid or ridiculous ideas about the genetic inferiority of, of, of black people are able to be exposed, be argued with, be contented because racists aren't just going to go away. If you bend them talking, they're going to go onto ground. They're going to find out the communities they gonna they gonna increasingly self segregate into their own little communities online. You want, I think you want free speech to be a big roiling debate. You don't want to be censorious and judgmental and intolerant towards people whose eyes you just you whose ideas you disagree with. You want to take them on and expose why those ideas are wrong, and hopefully through that, through that wrestling match, that intellectual wrestling match, you will end up progressing forward your progress forward by simply banning ideas that you think are are objectionable. That's agreed. You know that's a very important point. I think

Speaker 3:          01:23:06       what they're worried about though is these people going to schools and indoctrinating very gullible or very impressionable young people and that's a. that's a legit thing because they didn't.

Speaker 2:          01:23:17       That reinforces the Gullibility, right? Because you don't get it, you haven't been exposed to any other right,

Speaker 3:          01:23:21       is that they themselves have been indoctrinated into the idea of liberalism and liberal thinking by a charismatic people with interesting ideas that they believe in wholeheartedly and they're very confident in what they're saying, that they speak very well. Those ideas become infectious and sometimes those. I've expressed this before on the podcast that I listened to these Islamic clergyman speak, and although I have zero desire to become a Muslim, there's something intoxicating about people that extremely confident about their ideology and that's dangerous for people. It's dangerous. You have a person like me who's done a lot of fucking drugs, who does a lot of meditation, is involved in martial arts. I'm a free thinker. I'm a non theistic sort of a thinker, but I watch these people have these conversations with these massive crowds and they're saying all these crazy things about Islam being the truth and I feel I have a fee. I feel an understanding why people would be drawn to that. I'm not saying that I'm drawn to it myself, but I understand it like I feel that the. The compelling idea behind someone joining a group like that.

Speaker 2:          01:24:28       I think that's right. I think it's because certainty is intoxicating. Yes. Yes. Like if you're. If you're discombobulated, if the world is complicated, if you'd done what to make of Shit, especially if you're in a situation where you feel like you've been on for a lot of time, which is what a lot of these followers of these extremists do feel like a. Then it's nice to just have clarity that's just have someone who knows what the truth is and who knows what the right path is.

Speaker 3:          01:24:55       A perfect example that is country music. I guarantee you

Speaker 2:          01:24:59       if you'd asked to list five things that you are going to end that sentence with, it wouldn't have country music would not have been top, top 50.

Speaker 3:          01:25:06       I know a lot of people that I love dearly that liked country music and they lead. They read the least out of all the people that I know. All the people that I know that are like really into like really dumb country music. These motherfuckers on aware of shit that's going on in the world. I have good friends that I love, but you know, I have to talk to them. Especially for like from the hunting world, like the hunting world has goddamn hilarious because I've somehow or another become a part of this world because I've expressed this idea that I think is very important that we should be aware of where our food comes from and then uh, and I've become someone who gathers their food from a hunting way, but then you connect yourself with these people that are also in this, which became very religious. There's a lot of really, but, but it's weird kind of religion. It's, it's, it's almost like a hashtag activist sort of religious idea where they don't understand the texts they don't like. They'll have religious tattoos. Like, Hey fucker, you got to read the whole book. Like the book says, don't Tattoo yourself just like it says, don't blow guys. Like you can't be. Like, I've had arguments with people but

Speaker 2:          01:26:12       pretty much more explicit about the don't get a tattoo then don't blow a guy blow a guy. Beat is always nebulous about like lying with another male Wilson

Speaker 3:          01:26:20       the no tattoo on his knees and sucks my desk. There's no lying. The the tattoo thing is very clear, but when I got into it with these people was when that woman from Kentucky wouldn't marry gay people and I wrote this piece on instagram and facebook and it got millions of likes and all these people traded it back and forth and I got all this blow back from the hunting community because all these people that are really into God or really into religion and then you know, they're, they're also recognizing them. So like they were getting pressured by friends who are in the hunting community. We're getting pressure to talk to me about my stance on God. Like, this is hilarious. Like, well, how much do you guys actually know about the scripts? How much have you guys read? What? How much do you know about the origins of the scripts? And it turns out very little. Most of them, very little, but there's this need to simplify things that appear to be very complex. And the way to simplify things is put it all in God's hands. It's all about Jesus. You know Jesus. Hell, I'll tell you why I'm going to vote for him because he's on Jesus.

Speaker 2:          01:27:24       This comes back to the problem of tribalism that we were alluding to earlier in the show, right? That there is no greater way of encouraging people to be tribalistic than religion or political affiliation. Loosely, loosely understood. Right? So there's a, you know, Dan Collins History podcast. Man. I love the best. Just incredible. Have you had him on the show? Oh yeah. A bunch of stuff. Fantastic. I have, I missed those episodes. I've just, I've just been listening. I've almost finished getting through his world war one thing, which is like five episodes of three and a half hours. Eat Right. This is like Rogan esque duration podcast,

Speaker 3:          01:27:58       but way more, way more like produced way more. I mean it's brilliant. It's like there audio books.

Speaker 2:          01:28:06       Yes. I mean it's like a 20 hour explanation of the first world war. It's so good. And so one of the things that he's talking about is when he's talking about the Bulcans, he's saying like when the bulcans imploded in the 19 nineties and we had the collapse of Yugoslavia and united Bosnia and Serbia and all that, he's like, you go there even to this day and you talk to a Bosnian Muslim, will you talk to a Serb or you talk to a cro at about the problems that they've endured. And every single one of them will point a finger at the other groups and say they've been doing this to us for so long and that back in this day. And they did that and then they did that. And then they did that. It's like the Israelis and the Palestinians or something. Because like, oh well, you know, 10,000 fucking years ago, my ancestors got massive, goodbye blahdy Blah.

Speaker 2:          01:28:52       And it's so easy to think of ourselves in terms of aggrieved groups, whether or not. And my problem with religion is, and my problem with this is this is sort of a weird parallel that I'm drawing just as I'm sort of thinking this up right now. But there is a parallel between jihadis and social justice warriors in the sense that they ate. You're able to take an off the shelf prepackaged kind of identity instead of beliefs about things and gain certainty from it and be part of a tribe and be part of a community and be fighting the good fight against people who disagree with them. They'll hold beliefs that they believe are objectionable. Whether that belief is that the west is at war with Islam, which is what your do you think that we want, or whether the belief is that, uh, that racist racism is okay, which is what social justice warriors think that all white people think right? There are these easy off the shelf categories. So think independently. People

Speaker 3:          01:29:47       thinking independently is a good idea. Um, I don't know if I'm with you on that one though. Just the stories of the Jihad. I see where you go in with it. I think

Speaker 2:          01:29:57       world, their worldviews that are self reinforcing and their cliques that are soft supporting. Right? So you don't have to ask a lot of difficult questions.

Speaker 3:          01:30:05       Right. I totally understand what you're saying in that sense. I think extreme liberalism is a a sense may like extreme conservatism is a religion in a sense. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. It's an ideology. Ideologies are very dangerous ideologies where you have locked into a predetermined pattern of thinking that you just have to conform to, I think becomes very problematic for people because the world is fluid. It's. There's a lot going on, lot of weirdness to it, and I think that there's also an issue in communication through language and communication through words and the ability to express yourself through words. It's sometimes difficult because you're trying to do, as you're trying to express intent, you're trying to get someone to understand how you think and view things and you're trying to say, well, why don't you express and view yourself like I do, or why don't you see things? How I do, and maybe you're talking to someone who has a completely different idea of what those words mean and completely different idea of the context of this particular scenario that you're discussing. It's hard. It's, it's clumsy. Isn't that very difficult

Speaker 2:          01:31:06       because you've got this kind of platonic ideal in your head of what you want to communicate and then you have to just rummage around in the scrabble bucket for for the closest approximation to what it is

Speaker 3:          01:31:16       you're trying to impart. That's why podcasts are so unique in a way because you know one of the beautiful things about it is that you do sort of search for the correct way to. I mean you hear us do this sometimes, but this is like this is what we're doing is we're just trying to figure out what's the best way for me to express this idea that I've got bouncing around in my head where I'm trying to understand how, how this thing sort of lays out to everybody else. Like how do I, how do I, how do I broadcast it? How do I get it out there in a way where, you know what I'm actually saying what I'm actually thinking instead of getting outraged, it's something that's not what I meant. Like this meryl streep thing. Yes. It's not what she meant. She obviously didn't mean I don't want to be a slave, I want to be a black person in the 1800

Speaker 2:          01:31:59       clay and there are certain triggers that are really hard for people to get beyond in communication, but we have to find a way to get beyond like the, I think the most pressing form of communication that we have to grapple with now is how do we speak to the Muslim community and to one another about the Muslim community and about jihadism without either being bigoted towards Muslims or pretending that there isn't a problem of Islam, Islam that has some relationship to the Muslim community and that has some relationship to the text of Islam. Right? Because the moment I say anything remotely suggesting like the day after the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris, how uh, Dayne went on morning joe on Msnbc and said, these guys are about as Muslim as I am.

Speaker 2:          01:32:50       Well, that's bullshit, right? I mean that's obviously not true. Are more Muslim there arguably a lot more Muslim than most Muslims. I mean they are very phonetically Muslim. At least they think they are. Right? So we can't keep litigating whether or not they're theologically correct or whatever, like there is obviously a cancer at the extremist fringe of Islam that has to be dealt with and has to be talked about. And the more we just talk about it, the more the left talks about it in terms of well it's just a problem of extremism in all faiths. It's got nothing to do with the faith, the less able we are to actually have a conversation about what needs to be done and how to win over moderate Muslims and how not to alienate them. Because if we, if tolerant people can't talk about it, then the only people talking about the problem a right wing xenophobes or fascists.

Speaker 2:          01:33:37       Right. And so what we have to do is find a way when we talk about like those off the shelf ideologies, whether it's jihadism or Social Justice Warrior Ism, we have to find a way to win over moderate Muslims and make them not feel like they're being alienated and judged. We have to not be, you know, sending southwest flights back to the gate as it were the other day. Because two people were speaking Arabic and watching a video about what's going on in like the wake of the Paris attacks or something and people freaked out because they don't know who I think will Arab is a terrorist or something. You have to make sure that doesn't happen, but we can't have that not happen as long as everyone is pretending that there's not a problem with Islam, right at the edge of Islam and I don't know how to have that conversation without sounding like I'm intolerant. Keep

Speaker 3:          01:34:23       talking. Everybody's gotTa. Keep talking. The arguments against it come up. You talk about the arguments against it and it just just takes time. I really do believe that. I believe it just takes a lot of discourse, takes a lot of communication and the clumsy type of communication that you get through language through, through talking. I think the more this happens, the more this gets discussed, the more people gained an understanding and again, like we were looking at people aging or like trees growing. It is a slow process that in the middle of it, it doesn't seem like any progress is happening at all. But ultimately, if you look at the world today versus the world of 10 years ago, you see a big difference between what Al Franken was able to publish with that book and what you're able to get away with today. And I think that sort of in a weird way, for lack of a better analogy, it highlights the growth that's going on.

Speaker 3:          01:35:09       It highlights this very strange era that we're currently experiencing. And with that, let's end this and do your podcast so that we'll, we'll get to. We're going to keep talking folks, but we have to end this because I got to pick up my kid and a little bit, but we're going to do an episode of we the people live Hashtag we, the people lashed out with people like Josh Safran's podcast and it is available on itunes. It's available cloud. Or you can just follow us on twitter at WTP underscore alive underscores what these fucking under WTP love to know what it is. Why couldn't you just get weed? The people the whole thing or is that too many letters? I think it was too many lists. Okay. All right. We're going to do that and then we'll be back. But Johnny Depp's on twitter follow him. He's fantastic and we're going to do his podcast and uh, that's it. You Have Fox and we'll be back tomorrow with bill burke hollow.