JPs2bma7j70.txt

Speaker 1:          00:00:08       Does that new band, he mails and uh, I, I, I do a fucking really shitty beat box. I'm feeling that money coming in already, Brian. We got a winning combination. We need to put this shit on wax ready.

Speaker 1:          00:00:30       The Joe Rogan experience is brought to you by [inaudible] dot com. That's o n n I t, makers of Alpha brain shroom, tech sport. And You keep doing them. And I was kind of fun. Just shroom tech immune to do what are you going to do? New Mood. Another favorite new mood is actually a five htp and l trip to fan a supplement that uh, aids your body and its ability to produce serotonin. So it actually can make you happy. This is one that is a not to be taken by people that are on antidepressants though. If you're on antidepressants, apparently there's an issue with a creating too much, too much serotonin, too much, five htp. So you should be careful if you're on a few on an Ssri, don't, uh, don't take new load. But if you are not a safe, natural, healthy, you don't have to worry about it.

Speaker 1:          00:01:25       Nothing dangerous. Um, all the supplements, that new mood, all of them have a, the first 30 orders or the first 30 pills, the first order have a 100 percent money back guarantee. You don't have to return anything. You just say this shit didn't work and you get your money back. The idea behind that is no one's trying to rip you off. We're only trying to sell you the very best supplements possible. All supplements that I personally believe in, all things that I took long before I ever got involved in on it. Um, I've been a vitamin junkie and a nutrition junkie for a long time because there's a, there's a difference. There's an unquestionable difference in how your body responds when you feed it. Good nutrients and you take care of it. And there's a lot of science behind all this stuff, especially nootropics. There's plenty of studies that show benefits of nootropics and we're working on our own now.

Speaker 1:          00:02:14       I'm a double blind placebo study and we'll, we'll let all the details. It takes a long time to hook something like that. Or is it because they're all blind? No, that's a scientific method. Brian, this is not for blind. He seems like it takes a long time for those double blind blindfolds off project. Be Faster. Yeah. I don't think you understand what the fuck it means, son. Anyway, we also have kettle bells, battle ropes. If use a codename Rogan, you get 10 percent off any supplements. The battle ropes in the kettle bells, whoever that code doesn't work because we sell them literally as cheap as we can. Um, so go to on it. Use a code name, Rogan, buy yourself some supplements. You dirty bitches were also brought to you by desk squad dot TV. If you go to [inaudible] dot tv, see like the cat shirt that I had on yesterday or one of the ones that you'll see all over this place, the, the logos, but uh, Brian has two versions of them for sale. Um, and uh, all the money goes to support, uh, the, uh, the desk squad podcast network, which is on the itunes or aren't you? Dirty bitches, which is the only place where you can see the ice house chronicles this weekend. Oh, this Wednesday rather. Yeah. This weekend would have be in Toronto Hollow, but uh, this Wednesday we have a fucking gnarly show here at the ice house. We got Doug Benson, we've got Duncan Trussell, we got Brian Red Band, we got Joey Diaz, we got dom irrera. Is that it? Greg Fitzsimmons to. It's going to be fucking crazy.

Speaker 2:          00:03:37       And we also went Friday. If you're in town in La. Yeah. Who's on Friday? Well, we got clown vis, which is clown Elvis France. I liked how you lead strong Gareth from this, that new a MTV show and Francisco Ramos who is confused by a Francisco Kurth member. We had him on a podcast and it was the wrong guy that's supposed to be part of those Pablo Francisco. That's right. Right now we're friends. So

Speaker 1:          00:04:03       that's cool. Do sometimes shit just works out. Yeah. Anyway, uh, go to desk squad pv and all the information is there, right? All the posters for shows and uh, all the information for a tee shirt sales aren't you? Fucking freaks. Rich Roll is here. We're going to get busy sending it

Speaker 2:          00:04:21       down to the bottom of this thing.

Speaker 3:          00:04:25       Experience my day podcasts by night

Speaker 1:          00:04:31       when I did a podcast with Robb Wolf, who is the Paleo Diet Guy, uh, one of the first things that happened was that I got an immediate influx of, of vegans who had to set Robb Wolf Straight because rob wolf said some crazy shit. Like I told them, I drank a Kale shake every morning and it makes me feel great. Gives me a lot of energy. He's like, no, you got to eat bacon and eggs cigarettes and you gotta get your Dick Sucked by truckers. He wasn't my superhero. Yeah, he, he said some awesome shit that you should have bacon, eggs and coffee in the morning. And that's a good way to get your day started. A lot of people didn't want to hear that. A lot of people felt that it was silly. And you were one of the people that contacted me and then I lift up your story and it's pretty fascinating, man. You were, you were like around 40 and you were at a shape.

Speaker 4:          00:05:26       Yeah, I mean, I was, uh, I was, I had been an athlete in college. I was a swimmer in college, but uh, it Kinda got away from me after that, you know, when, when colleges over, that was kind of the end of that athletic chapter and, you know, life goes on and, you know, I went to law school and then it's just about the job and get married and having kids and you know, climbing the corporate ladder and all that kind of stuff and you know, in the wake of that, you know, lost sight of being fit and being healthy and you know, it was pretty much a couch potato, depressed, lethargic, a little bit lost in life, you know, how it goes. So, uh, I decided I had to uh, take it back. I had a little bit of a, of a health scare that kind of triggered me to take, to do something about it.

Speaker 4:          00:06:08       And so what, what action did you take specifically? Well, I mean, I wish I could, you know, say ran off to the library and got a bunch of books and, you know, read all the Paleo books and read all the Vegan books and did a double blind study with people with double blindfolds on and, and, you know, figuring out the right way to do it. And, you know, that's not what happened. I mean, I, I fumbled around for awhile trying to figure out what would work for me, but the first thing I did, um, my wife is like, she's big into yoga and healing and meditation and she's like, you know, she's constantly reading like crazy spiritual texts and you know, she's pretty well schooled in alternative thinking and lifestyle and all that kind of stuff. And you know, if you were to open the refrigerator is pretty clear like kind of food she was eating and what I was eating, which was essentially crap.

Speaker 4:          00:06:55       So, uh, but she would do like a juice cleanse pretty much every year, you know. And that was fine for her. But that was definitely not something that I was ever interested in doing. But, you know, it was kind of desperate and I thought, you know, maybe I'll, uh, maybe I'll try that. And so I just sort of reached out to her and I said, you know, I think I want to do that, and she hooked me up with, we got all these crazy herbs and you know, we got a juicer and the whole thing and kind of dialed it in and you know, I did that for like five days, kind of a, not like the, you know, in Hollywood, a lot of people do like the Cayenne pepper thing or whatever. Yeah. I mean that's like a starvation thing. So it wasn't like that. It was like I kind of weaned myself off food for a couple of days and just did juice for a couple of days and then kind of lean back into food. But it was a pretty like, eyeopening experience, you know, like the first couple of days I was like, it was like I was in Rehab, man. It's like buckled over on the couch, like detox. I'm like, shit, I could barely move.

Speaker 5:          00:07:51       What was your diet like before that? Like what was standard

Speaker 4:          00:07:54       cheeseburgers? Yeah, I mean she's, you know, fast food all the time, man, you know, dominoes, Pizza, Pizza Hut, Wendy's, Jack in the box late at night, coming home from work, just it didn't matter. And you know, part of that was because when I was in, when I was swimming in college, you know, I'm training like four hours a day and you're, you know, you're 19, 20 years old or whatever. And just it was just about how many calories can I put down the throat and trying to fill myself up, you know, it didn't really matter and you know, you can get away with that stuff, you know, and I did for a long time, but you know, it catches up to you. But those habits, you form those habits that carry with you and they're, you know, they're hard to break.

Speaker 5:          00:08:30       Yeah. We really are a creature of habit. That's a, it's a strange thing that even bad habits like gambling, like people that become gambling addicts, it really is some sort of like a,

Speaker 4:          00:08:39       uh, like a,

Speaker 5:          00:08:40       like a hijacking of reward systems and giving you this, this rush towards something that really doesn't make any sense and there's also the comfort factor that comes and repeating patterns. It's like your brain knows how to do it. It's done it before. Let's fucking around just keep

Speaker 6:          00:08:56       doing the same shit you've been doing and just, you know, blow off the gym and take a nap and go beat off and you know, just do, do, do the same stupid shit you've been doing. It's really hard for people to like to move away from that. Yeah. You get these like cemented pathways in your brain and it's just your default. Like I think you, you know, when you were certain behavior patterns after a while, you don't even know you're doing it. You're just like, it's like your program, like a computer. You just follow that pattern every time. Change is hard, man. It is hard and it's, it's also, it's hard to find a healthy meal at like fucking Burger King or Jack in the box. It's hard to go in there and really get some nutrients. You can't happen. I mean you like you look you like, do you got a salad?

Speaker 6:          00:09:36       You've got to sell over there and he looked at the salad. You're like, oh Jesus. It's all like iceberg lettuce, assault wilderness and everything's closed early here in la. So if you're working late and coming home like it's sometimes it's the only option. Subways, subways though, that's, you know, all that stuff that they can keep on a shelf for that long. None of that is good for you. So much. It's way better. I would imagine if you just got a chicken sandwich or a on whole wheat or something like that. You need to drive throughs and more drive through siblings if they even have any at all. But that would be perfect. Just dudes talking to you about like some serious fucking festival nutrition. You want to, you want to find the healthier, you know, but I mean you gotta I mean I can't imagine the produce that like subway and you're such a huge corporation.

Speaker 6:          00:10:25       You're getting the low rent. You cannot fuck with in and out Burger man. If you had like some like really sexy tofu lettuce wrap thing that you're selling, but right next door was in and out burger. You're doomed son. It's tough, man. It goes back to those pathways. You know, you smell it. It's like a fair amount. Yeah, it's powerful. It also goes back to the fact that in and out it's fucking delicious. That's a problem too. You can't deny that shit's delicious, man. I did it for years and years and years, especially in and out, those fresh burgers so much better than burgers at like, you know, someplace where they nuke it. Didn't they just have like a little bit of a scandal there though with some of their meat. Did they screwed up? Yeah. I thought I remember reading something about that. Maybe this might be vegan propaganda probably. It wasn't like the Zan. Remember desk squad coming down on me like my twitter already exploded. Your fans are fucking rabid, tense, intense following. I don't know what happened. Um, yeah. I to go to war. You just rally the troops. What? We're trying to build armies. That's what we're selling kettlebells. We're selling kettle bells and battle ropes and selling vitamins and brain pills and subscribing to youtube videos. The uh, yeah, you were right there in and out burger. I'm a plant. Got closed by US da. A supplied a or a rather than. Yeah,

Speaker 1:          00:11:54       the, the, the inspectors. Temporary shut down. California Meat Company that provided the beef or the popular in and out burger chain. Iu. That's not good. No propaganda here, man. And also the I of course, I'm just, it's always good to have the information if you say things all the time and I need to check them so I'd do it with anybody else has something to. But the US school lunch program, they also provided food for them. Who? Who fucking.

Speaker 4:          00:12:18       If you're sourcing that much beef, you know, you're a huge company like that. You're going to have a problem like that from time to time.

Speaker 1:          00:12:24       Yeah. There's a lot of cows involved in that, huh? What is. What are the numbers and something like that. Now it's got to be enormous. Diane Sawyer looks pissed as fuck. That was the last person you want on TV. No, Nancy grace is the last person you want to talk shit about you angry faced, but I'm like, how many cows do you think they use? Like just in and out a small chain like in and out. How many do they use in his day? Got To be mind blowing. Yeah. Whoa. Really? Stop and think about that. It's like the holocaust of cows over there. Well, you know what it is, man. We figured out how to make this society work without people hunting. It feel like this weird notion that we have zero connection with how the food is gathered. Like that's a really fucking crazy way to live. So everybody's like, yeah, I'd like meat like meat, but you don't have to do any of the stuff that makes you respect the animal. You don't have to hunt it down. You don't have to kill it enough to like be thankful that you got it and bring it back. There's none of that anymore. The system

Speaker 4:          00:13:20       stem is set up to prevent you from thinking about it. You know, it's almost like grocery stores in a certain way. It's analogous to like a Vegas casino where, you know, the casinos, I don't know if they're pumping the air conditioning and there's no clocks. You can't find the exit door. It's disorienting and the same way like a grocery store, everything's perfectly packaged. It looks clean or what, whatever, you know, you're not, you're not supposed to think about that.

Speaker 1:          00:13:41       I was at a grocery store that has a butcher shop in the back and uh, they were sawing through a side of beef and you don't really see that, you know, you really rarely see that. You know, you would usually get is you get like, you know, they have these packages and the state because already nice and wrapped up and you go, this one is a full pound. That's a good size state. I'll take that home. No, no, no. This dude had saw and he was running meet through the, so I was like, yeah, that's real life son. That's, that's our body. It's not like a steak. Now there's a body that has to get chopped up and become sex when we're so separated from that. That actual experience of seeing the animal lose its life and understanding what it means to eat it. We're completely separated from really strange. Imagine if your job was the guy in the slaughterhouse, like doing that cutting throats or whatever. I mean, that's got a tad emotional gotta be mad. Yes. It's got to be madness all day. You're seeing terrified animals and you're giving them the very thing that they're terrified of it. Terrified of losing their lives. Fucking horrifying. Yeah. It's weird man. And I think you know, you

Speaker 4:          00:14:49       know I think you can appreciate is a deep thinker, but you know, food is energy, man. It, it carries a vibration and so when you put something in your mouth and you know you're making a decision to take that vibration into you and so you know what, what is that vibration? You know, when you're taking in a terrorized animal, does that affect you? Is that. Does that change your perception, your decision making, your outlook, does it not? I don't know.

Speaker 1:          00:15:13       It's very good question. The, you know the solution though, it seems to be it's not as simple as don't eat meat because even if you don't eat meat, what are you gonna do with all these fucking cows? Are you going to stop them from breeding? Are you going to let them starve to death and die off? Or they're going to go extinct? Like how are we going to regulate these cows? You're either going to shoot them or you're going to castrate a bunch of them. You're going to have to shoot some of them because otherwise you're going to have cows wandering through the streets everywhere. Like you got to deal with the fact that we have to deal with the fact that you've created a species. You know, essentially we've bred cows to this domestic form from wild cows and you know, it's, we've done it for so long that they're pretty much helpless.

Speaker 1:          00:15:55       Without us, it'd be bad cows. There's no predators out there. It's not like we live in fucking Africa and there's lions running around the could take care of the cow problem. It's not going to happen. You would have a real problem with cows if we stopped eating them. Just the fucking sheer numbers that exist now. I mean, unless you could absolutely keep them from breeding and then you would have to figure out what we're going to do. You're going to just let the old ones die. You're going to let some of them breed, you know, what are you going to do? No, it's not. Absolutely. Yeah. There's no easy solution, but the Vegan solution of not eating the meat at least removes Karma from your position. It moves. It removes you from interacting with the terrified animals last moments into for you to be. I don't want to say profiting, benefiting from that. Well, I don't know. I just

Speaker 4:          00:16:44       speak to my own experience. You know, and I know I feel better. I feel more energized. I feel like my energy is even in good. My, my mood and my outlook is positive and I think that, you know, when you, when you talk about Vegan and the word Vegan and what that means, I mean that means different things to different people. You know, it's a tricky word. It's

Speaker 1:          00:17:04       no what it means for a lot of people.

Speaker 4:          00:17:06       Well, what it means, fuck you.

Speaker 1:          00:17:09       No, it means it means, uh, you, you run a high risk of them being annoying. It doesn't mean that they're ignoring a lot of friends that are awesome. Mac Danzig is a Vegan and he's a great guy, great guy, and he's going to be on the podcast tomorrow again. We fucked up and the big disaster for this park and I just sit. My twitter feed won't still being a lazy fuck. People are so silly. You know, Max, a great guy, awesome guy, and he's, you know, he's got his reasons and they're intelligent or reasons for being a Vegan. However, there are a few people that do it as like a sanctimonious starting point. They do it as like,

Speaker 5:          00:17:50       you like a, they are claiming a moral high ground with this new position and they flaunt it and it's like, you know, really annoying self satisfying kind of in your face way.

Speaker 4:          00:18:01       It's, it's defeatist for what they're trying to say as well. And I think that, that uh, yeah, it's a very emotionally

Speaker 5:          00:18:08       recharge work. Food in general as well be religious,

Speaker 4:          00:18:11       talking about food in general is emotionally charged. I mean just look at the twitter feed is going to explode over this and that's your barometer of that. But you know, it's, it's right up there with religion and politics. It really is. And when you say Vegan, it immediately, you know, people snap into a preconceived idea of what that is and what that means. And they have a visual image of a person in their mind, you know, it's a guy with dreadlocks kicking a hacky sack up in Humboldt.

Speaker 5:          00:18:37       Always blowing a guy. Yeah, I mean, whatever it is, somebody has that imagery. So the, so that word, you know,

Speaker 4:          00:18:46       and, and people have different reasons for getting into it, you know, you have the people who are into it for the compassion and the saving the animals. That's a very different crowd and attitude from the people that get into it for health reasons or because they don't want to have a heart attack or whatever. And uh, and you know, they both are I guess are technically vegans but they're also, you know, very different. And just because you choose to not eat meat or whatever it doesn't, does that mean that you're automatically a democrat or what is your political point of view and all of these things get woven together and it. And it makes it, it makes it challenging to even talk about it with an open mind.

Speaker 5:          00:19:23       Yeah. It is a quite interesting situation and there is the very real issue of the fact that we are at the top of the food chain and when you're at the top of the food chain of bear, some responsibility and you can, you know, we're the only animals that can really decide and choose how to alter other animals' lives, like on purpose and figure out how to do it. And when you look at how we choose to do it, if you look at like food inc and you see factory farming and stuff like that, it really is a, is a, it's a damning statement about like where we're at like spiritually, like as a race, like we're getting away with this really heinous shit because we can because it's easy to just not pay attention to it. And that's uh, that's, that's the worst case scenario.

Speaker 5:          00:20:11       The best case scenario you would think they have it set up. So these animals live like they're on a, an open prairie and they all just live a natural life. And then you call them from the herd and you do it. You do it, you know, easily. So they live a natural life, no different than any other cow in a large environment where they get to roam around and eat grass instead of being forced fed corn and then you just kill them. I mean that's like the best case scenario if you're going to eat cows. But the way we do it is it's pretty damning that human beings in the idea of maximizing profit have decided to run these ridiculous places where you're packing pigs

Speaker 6:          00:20:48       right next to each other in these little boxes and you, you see the chickens all stuffed in together with each other and pecking and each other. It's fucking gnarly, man.

Speaker 4:          00:20:56       We, yeah. When you see food inc and you see the chicken coop,

Speaker 6:          00:20:59       it's pretty tough. It's pretty disturbing

Speaker 4:          00:21:03       connection because you know, it's easy to go, well chickens, chickens, the healthier option or whatever. And then you see that it makes you, it makes you think twice. But I also think, you know, we've created this system that ultimately is not sustainable. I mean, like an insane amount of our agriculture goes to produce grain to feed these to feed livestock like something like 90 percent or something like that. It's crazy. High, crazy high. And, and you know, with the, and then it, it, you know, brings up all the ecological arguments about greenhouse gasses.

Speaker 6:          00:21:35       Oh, they fill up a fucking storm. Those goddamn animals ruined India. Do you know they do. They fucking, they caused global warming. No. Bullshit and farting. Yes. Do it. It's not bullshit. It sounds silly, but they fought so much. You're dealing with in India, you have so many fucking cows that they really have pollution issues because of cows farting in the air. I heard the grass fed beef parks even more. Really. I don't know where I wrote. That's hilarious. Well that makes sense because envy, it would be much more grass fed. Right. And they're the ones who have the, the big issue, but they also have the issue in that they don't kill cows or at least the Hindus. Do you? Apparently Ken buy beef in India. It's not uncommon. It's just there's a huge group of them that won't fuck with the cows. Is that why they don't wear deodorant?

Speaker 6:          00:22:19       So it smells like deodorant or armpits more than poop and Fart. So you know, it's like you're building your field. Maybe your own body smell cancel out the shit. Smell in the air. Yeah. That's like way better than fucking shit. Yeah man. That's like the worst case scenario is like you're living around animals who stink up the air constantly with their fart gas and you can't kill them because dog fart are fucking nasty. Big Cow Farts. That's way be sniffing our pits all day long. You're hungry and you know there's people starving and they're just letting these delicious cows just wander around the fuck. Did that ever happen? I don't know. I think it goes back to religion. What a bunch of silly bitches they are in India. That is the one of the silliest choices ever. What do you want to do? You want to starve to death or what you eat these fucking delicious cows.

Speaker 6:          00:23:08       Let's just sit around some other farts and complain and have more people's cultural mores though. I mean, there are, there are cultures that think that we're insane for having dogs in our houses. It's true. Yeah. It's interesting how, um, we just sort of adopt a pattern of behavior based on our surroundings and what's existed in that area for the Indians, I guess what it is the cow is sacred and the Hindu culture. So it is God or something like that or relatives come back to life or something. Yeah. Well, when I worked at an Indian company, I had a steering wheel. My, me and my ex girlfriend used to share a cart and her steering wheel cover. It was a cow, a

Speaker 2:          00:23:46       print and they saw me drive up tonight and I had a meeting and they told me to please remove that from their steering wheel because uh, they, they respect cows. Why real Indian company was called the software people.

Speaker 4:          00:24:00       Oh Wow. Well you showed up with like murdered scanning vote piece. So just filled with, you know, just be nice and God's got to be a weird thing. What a strange thing to just choose to really worship and lock onto it just shows you. I mean that's what they did in India, you know, he someplace else. It was Buddha someplace else. It was Jesus. It's were so fascinating when it comes to that. Human beings are really, really bizarre animals. So your, your story was that you were an athlete and then you got unhealthy and then you had a little bit of a health scare. So that's when you decided to go vegan. Yeah. So I did. So I did that juice cleanse and then you know, by the, by the fifth day of that, I just felt unbelievable, you know, like my energy level was through the roof and all I had been doing it was drinking like fruit and vegetable juice and drinking this like beet root broth and some teas and stuff like that.

Speaker 4:          00:24:54       And, and it was, it was amazing because I had, I had abused my body for so long with terrible food and terrible lifestyle and I'm also a recovering alcoholic. So I used to drink like a shitload. You hit it on both ends. Yeah, I was hitting, I was hitting it hard, like I just, you know, I did not treat myself well and the idea that like within five days I could feel that good. Like I didn't know that I could feel that good or I hadn't felt that good in 15, 20 years. It's pretty amazing. The body is incredibly resilient, you know, when you treat it right. So when I was done with that I thought well, what am I going to do? You know, like I want to, I want to keep feeling this good like, but I don't know, I don't know what to do next.

Speaker 4:          00:25:36       And you know, again, I wish I'd gone out and read a bunch of books or something, but I just thought, uh, maybe I'll try a vegetarian diet. Like I didn't do any education or research, but I just, it just seemed like, well that sounds, you know, healthy or healthier than what I'm doing. But kind of coming from an addiction perspective and a recovery perspective. Like I went to rehab 14 years ago and so a lot of like the way, like I sort of rewired my brain and the way I think is kind of in the context of addiction and recovery. It just seemed like something I could wrap my brain around because you're either eating meat or you're not, you know, it's very, it's very black and white just like you're using drugs and you're drinking or you're not, you know, you're either sober or you're using, you know.

Speaker 4:          00:26:20       And so that made more sense to me then hey I'm going to eat better. Like I'm just going to eat healthy and go to the gym because it's so vague, you know, like I don't know what that means, you know, maybe I would for like a week or two, but I would definitely fall back into my regular old behavior patterns. So. So I started doing that but it wasn't long before, you know, I'm looking for the loopholes or whatever because you can eat like shit on a vegetarian diet. You can eat like shit on a Vegan Diet. So you know, I could, I could eat pizza hut cheese pizza and get Nachos in, you know, eat McDonald's French fries and I'm a vegetarian, right. So certainly, you know, that wasn't working, but I did that for like six months and of course I didn't lose any weight about 50 pounds heavier than I have now and you know, it was kind of back on the couch and lethargic and I was ready to just bag it.

Speaker 4:          00:27:07       But I thought, you know, I wonder what would happen if I just kind of went that extra step and got rid of the dairy and cut out the processed foods and I didn't really think it would make a difference. Like I almost did it to prove that it wouldn't or to like, you know, proven my wife that it wouldn't work, you know, so I could kind of keep doing what I was doing and, and, and feel free about it. But. So I tried that and within a week, like I was back to that energy level that I felt when I did the cleanse, like my energy level was through the roof. Like it was so high that I could only sleep like a couple hours a night and I was like bouncing off the walls and it really did. It did, it made a huge debt. It made a huge difference. And I think getting rid of the dairy made a much bigger, like not eating the meat wasn't that hard for me, but getting rid of the dairy in my diet, that was a lot harder. That was almost like another detox because dairies in so many foods so. And I crave it man, you know, I love it. So it was very difficult to kind of break that. Do you have cheat days? I don't have cheat days.

Speaker 6:          00:28:08       So your, your attitude is essentially the same attitude that you have about like recovery because. Well that's the thing like I know

Speaker 4:          00:28:17       you know like Tim Ferris is big on the cheat day with his slow car up and all of that and it seems to work for a lot of people and it makes sense for me. Like for me it's about, it goes back to like the addiction model because I do crave this stuff man. And I know if I had a cheeseburger like once a week, like I'd start eating cheeseburgers all the time because it would, you know, you break the cycle and now I don't think about it that much. Like every once in a while I'll smell it and it smells good to me, but I don't go around like creating it all the time. But if I was to have it every once in awhile then you're kind of, you keep your, you're still kinda like fertilizing that little seed.

Speaker 6:          00:28:51       I respect that. Anthony Bourdain loves pork so much. He loves pork so much that they gave him the option of quit eating pork or take medicine to lower your blood pressure and your cholesterol rather. And he took the medicine so they'll take the fucking medicine. I need pork. Talked about it on the show, like being addicted to food. And for him it's work. Fatty pork. He's willing to sacrifice health because he likes to eat pork. I mean that's, that's pretty heavy man. Fucking intense. Yeah. And I don't know how good that anti cholesterol medication is for you. Is that okay for you?

Speaker 4:          00:29:30       I mean, you know, there's a lot, there's, there's plenty of side effects from that. I mean, uh, I would imagine there are a crazy number of people that are on these drugs and it's amazing the extent to which the, the, the healthcare system, you know, the doctors just, you know, they just need your prescribed this stuff and they're not that educated about nutrition, whether it's Paleo or Vegan or whatever. It's not really part of the medical school curriculum.

Speaker 5:          00:29:57       I'm shocked talking to doctors about nutrition. I've been shocked to having conversations. Right?

Speaker 4:          00:30:03       Very few are. And it's not their fault. Like, you know, they're studying all sorts of stuff and you know, maybe there's an elective here or there like one required course that they have to take, but they're not really that school. And in our system where we're sort of grown and raised to believe that, you know, doctor knows best and you go to the doctor and the doctor knows everything and it's kind of alarming and eyeopening to realize that that's not necessarily the case. At least with respect to nutrition,

Speaker 5:          00:30:28       there should most certainly be a, uh, a doctor of nutrition that you go to, a doctor who is a, a, a full fledge Dr at the top of, you know, all the information that's available today. He's on top of all of it and his job is just to check your blood and, and give you a detailed writeup of what's wrong with you nutritionally. You know what? So you don't have any [inaudible] in your body. You don't have this in your body, you don't have, you're missing nice. And you know what, whatever it is that he could show you what your optimum levels of your various nutrients should be. Very, very, very few people you know, ever get that done. No.

Speaker 4:          00:31:05       And they do exist. But that should be part of your physical.

Speaker 5:          00:31:08       Yeah, it shouldn't be. It should be a regular thing because for, you know, I talk about on the show all the time, how much it changed me when I, when I started drinking Kale shakes in the morning and I'm not Vegan. I still a, I drink milk, I still eat meat, but in a massively increasing the amount of plant nutrients I get into my body and especially it seems like starting my day with them that I, I usually I don't eat like right when I wake up I like to exercise sometimes or just get up and do some stuff and then I'll eat. And uh, my first meal is always really light. It's always either some sort of a hemp protein shake or it's this, um, this a Kale shake thing that I have. But the difference is the Kale shake gives me this fucking steady energy. Like I can feel my body responding to the nutrients. Like you can literally feel it and there's no. The only negative about it at all is that you have to ship more, but that's just like cleaning out your pipes and you actually look forward to it because they're there are wonderful. These poops or like a ride,

Speaker 4:          00:32:17       like you can feel it, you can feel it in the way that you know, like when you have that First Cup of coffee and you can feel your spine getting tickled by the caffeine. It's a similar. It's a similar thing. I mean, it jacks you up. I could not live without the vitamix. I mean that's an amazing creation. We got to town, we bring it with. We'd like travel with it. You're an animal which

Speaker 6:          00:32:40       are part of your life. I mean, it's amazing. It's a heavy thing because it's expensive. Right? And things like 500 bucks, 450 bucks or whatever. It's a. it's a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people to tell them they ought to get one, but it's a motherfucker. Once you have it, you're right. I can't imagine not having it. It's a motherfucker. It's a beast. That thing's amazing. It's such a great thing to stuff everything in there and plunge it and then just turn that bitch on. Okay. I, uh, blended in avocado pit wants, drank it. Whoa. What was that? While I had a bunch of other stuff. Is that good for you? But just wanted to see if I could do it.

Speaker 6:          00:33:19       That's how the condo. Even the pip, but that's what I'm talking about. Isn't that the poison that's got like a night traits in it or something crazy like. No, it has, it has a front back to the future. It's fucking nuclear. It's like those sneakers that light up when you step on them so that stuff. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend doing it all the time. I just wanted to see that. The point is that I couldn't believe that it was so powerful that it could get actually blend that into. For folks who don't know what a vitamix is, it's essentially a really high powered blender that's designed to make like vegetable smoothies, but it also has like a top with a hole in it and you have like a plunger and the plunger drops down to like right above the blade. So it shoves everything into the blades and matches.

Speaker 6:          00:34:02       It's incredible. It never breaks the fucking thing. Oh, indestructible. It's like a World War II relic kind of thing. Even the design of it looks like it's been around forever. Have you? Um, I think I tweeted you this. Did you, have you tried putting beets in there? No, no, I have. My recipe is so fucking good. I don't want to mess with it too much. I meshed with it by chain beat stuff. Sound good. But I changed the pairs to a pineapple, put like a half of Eden and the Beet Greens because the, the, the nitrites nitrites and nitrates. I always get that wrong or whatever. It's been shown to have significant impact on, uh, the efficiency of your oxygen utilization. Like it really, it's, it's an, it's a pretty significant like energy booster. Wow, okay. So the Greens as well, but the Greens in and then it'll turn everything read like even if you put a tiny amount of bed and the whole shake will be read and it's, you know, you want to put some other stuff in there because it has kind of a heavy taste but, but you'll notice a difference.

Speaker 6:          00:35:05       Oh, right. Definitely. I would definitely do that. I'll try that shit tonight. The same way that um, the quarter's eps work because you know, the quarter steps are so good at boosting your oxygen uptake and the efficiency of your oxygen utilization as a similar effect. I mean the quarter steps are crazy. Awesome, amazing. You know? Yeah. Well that's what the main ingredient of shroom tech sport is. I take four of those before Jujitsu glass and even if I'm, you know, I haven't been training recently like, so it's amazing how much more energy you have to make significant feeling of like an extra little boost that you have. It's like you've

Speaker 4:          00:35:37       been training at altitude and then you come down to sea level like you feel like you don't get winded,

Speaker 1:          00:35:43       you don't go into the same way, that's for sure. And people who have gone to altitudes like you've had to change attitudes rapidly, like move up to boulder, like real quick and that normally would have issues with that. They've found that if they take cordyceps mushrooms it can can settle them in, settle them in quicker because for a lot of people that altitude sickness is no fucking joke. I read this thing about babies being born in Colorado that like a record number of babies are born prematurely like uh, in Colorado because the, the high altitude, but it totally makes sense. That's a harder way to live. The whole thing is tougher. Oxygen Utilization is fucking everything, man. It's everything. It's everything and it's in beats. Beats Man. Check it out. She got some rhubarb while you're at it, Joe also. So you don't, you do you miss meat at all? Do you miss the smell? Like if you have a neighbor who's barbecuing and you had nightmares about Fogo de Chao. Oh, I'm a human being,

Speaker 4:          00:36:43       man, you know, like I, you know, I ate that stuff for a long time. I like it. I like the smell of it. I mean there are certain you can people that will say discuss them or whatever and that's, you know, I'm sure it does or whatever. But for me I smell it. It smell. That's my problem. Smells good. I drive by Jack in the box. I think that smells good and it's. Yeah, see that's, that's like my problem. That's why I can't have a cheat day for me. I understand.

Speaker 1:          00:37:09       So how did you get involved in endurance athletics? What happened there?

Speaker 4:          00:37:13       It was another kind of weird, like organic thing that just evolved over time. I mean when I, when I got on the plant based Diet, I started exercising again, you know, mainly because I just had all this energy I had to burn off. Like I didn't, I didn't have any designs on going back to being an athlete or being competitive in anything. I just wanted to lose a little weight and I want it to be able to enjoy my kids at their energy level, you know, I have four kids now, so it was really just about, you know, connecting with that part of myself that I kind of lost touch with, but nothing crazy, you know, I would go to the pool and swim a couple times a week and you know, do a light jog here and there. My wife bought me a bike for my birthday.

Speaker 4:          00:37:54       I'd never really ridden a bike before and this was when I turned 40, but then I had like a inexperience after I'd been doing this for maybe four months or something like that. It's really moderate exercise. I went out for a morning run out at, uh, you know, where a mulholland drive, the dirt road part of it that dumps out at the bottom of Topanga on the valley side. So there, there's a trail that you can, you can literally go like all the way to Brentwood, right? Goes forever. And I just went out there one morning on a weekday for a morning run and just, you know, you have those days and I'm sure you have it in Jujitsu where you just feel unstoppable. Like you can just keep going forever. I just started running and I just felt amazing, you know, and I just kept going and going and say I don't have to be back, you know, I'm going to keep going, going.

Speaker 4:          00:38:40       I ended up running like the better part of a marathon, you know, like I think 24 miles or something like that, that morning, excuse me. And I got back and I was like, what is going on? Some forest gumption. Yeah, it was, it was okay. I mean I'd never been a runner, you know, it's not like I had a background in running or had any proficiency in it really. And it wasn't like I was going fast that day either, but it was just the idea that I could keep going and I thought something's going on here, you know? I don't know whether it's the nutrition change or I've just unlocked some dormant gene inside me. But, you know, this felt good, you know, and then I was like, I'd like to challenge myself and then I started looking for something to do and you know, when you're 40 it's like, you know, a bucket list item or what's the midlife crisis thing you want to do?

Speaker 4:          00:39:27       And started thinking about doing an ironman because that's pretty typical goal for a 40 year old guy who wants to, you know, conquer a mountain or whatever. And uh, and started trading a little bit more and more. And I didn't know anything about triathlon. I didn't know anything about ironman or anything like that. But I figured it seems like there's, those ironman races are like every weekend somewhere, like tons of people are doing it. It can't be that hard to get in one. I'll just pick a city and you know, a ways out and trained for it. Myself and I went on the website one day and realize that, that uh, they all sell out like a year ahead of time. Like they're like youtube tickets like the, after the day, after one of those races the next day. And they just sell out like in a couple of hours. So I couldn't get into any of those.

Speaker 4:          00:40:11       And, and, uh, it was like, well, you know, what am I going to do? And nothing seemed to excite me and I kind of lost my Mojo for a little bit. But, uh, I was at Jamba juice one morning, like maybe a month after that experience getting a juice and you know, how they have those, um, like competitor magazines that you see in like running shoe stores or whatever, like running shoe reviews or whatever. Just laying around. And I picked it up and started looking at it. And there was an article about this dude named, uh, David Goggins, who is this bad ass navy seal guy. Like guy had been like a football player and a power lifter. Like big strapping guy. I think he was up. He had weighed like 275 pounds at one point and had seen some shit, you know, as a, as a navy seal.

Speaker 4:          00:40:56       And had lost a lot of friends in inaction. And he decided that he was going to go. He was going to find the 10 most difficult endurance races in the world and do them all to raise money for. It wasn't the wounded warriors foundation, but it was something like that, like a, like a, you know, so that he could raise money for the families of these, these friends of his that had fallen and he had. He had just done this race called Badwater, which is 135 mile run through death valley that goes up like Mount Whitney at the end like this and it's like crazy hot, like 110, 120 degrees out in the desert and he had just done really well in that and he had never really done much endurance sports before that. Like you literally had fallen into it and he had just put in an incredible performance.

Speaker 4:          00:41:41       And then like a month later he did this race called ultra man, which is this insane double ironman distance race in Hawaii where over the course of three days you circumnavigate the entire big island of Hawaii, which is like a big island. It's like the size of Connecticut. Right? So I was reading about this and it just seemed like such a cool event. Like it. Not only was it longer than iron man, which I didn't think was possible. Um, it was a broken up into stages. So the first day is six point two mile ocean swim followed by a 90 mile bike and the last part, the last 20 miles of that bike, you go up to volcano national park. So it's like a 40,000 foot gain and the second day you ride 170 miles around the eastern side of the island, like up through Hilo and you end up in this little town called Havi.

Speaker 4:          00:42:33       On the third day you run 52 point four miles, double marathon from Havi back into Kona where the race started. And I was like, what is this? And it was cool because they limited it to just 35, like invitation only competitors like you had to apply to get into this race. They don't close any of the roads and it was almost like this family affair. We have to bring your own crew and they kind of take care of you. And feed you out of a van while you're doing this race and the crews kind of help each other out and the competitors help each other out. So it's a race, but it, it seemed almost like this crazy spiritual odyssey, you know, like this experiment in expansion, you know, much more than a race. And I was like, that was what I was looking for, you know, it wasn't like I was looking for a race to go see how fast I could go or how many guys I could be like it resonated with me because it seemed more like an opportunity to learn more about myself in a way that was unique.

Speaker 4:          00:43:35       You know what I mean? Like it was a like this crazy down the rabbit hole, like spiritual adventure. And so it just captivated me and I, I was like, it was one of those things where, you know, when you come across something and something just clicks inside you and you know, like that's the direction you're supposed to go in or you're on the right path. Or, you know, maybe you've had that in stand up or at some point in your life where you just feel like you're directed in a certain way, you know, where everything just kind of seems in alignment. It was like, I just knew I wasn't going to do that race. Like I just, I didn't know how and I hadn't done anything of note to Merritt getting into it or anything like that. But I was like, I'm going to find a way to do that.

Speaker 4:          00:44:16       Like I've got to do that and I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I ended up calling up the, a race director and it was some months before you could even send in your application because I was like, I couldn't stop thinking about it and I needed to like just if she going to tell me like there's no way I was getting in, then I could at least put that to bed. So I just call her up and said, you know, I read about this race and I can't stop thinking about it and I'd really like to do it, but, you know, maybe I'm crazy because, you know, I don't know why I'm even calling you because I haven't really done very much. Um, you know, and she said, well, what have you done? And I was like, done anything barely, barely, you know, I'm just getting back into being fit again.

Speaker 4:          00:44:55       And she had every reason to just say, well, you know, why don't you call me in a couple of years and, you know, we'll see what you've done that and maybe I'll let you into this race. But she was like, well, listen, you know, it means a lot that you called early and uh, why don't you just touch base with me in a couple of months and we'll evaluate your training and we'll go from there. So she kinda like left the cracking the door open, you know? So it was enough to like give me a little bit of hope. Like the pilot light was lit a little bit and I was like, I'm going to get into that race, you know, I'm going to find a way to get into that race. And I hired a coach and I started training as if I was already in. This was back in early 2008 and uh, I mean it's a long story, but ultimately she ended up relenting and letting me in and I ended up doing that race in 2008 and I hadn't done an ironman before that. I tried to do a half ironman the year before and I didn't even finish. So, you know, I wasn't going in with some crazy like endurance pedigree. So it was, it was, it was a cool experience though. And I ended up doing pretty well in that race.

Speaker 7:          00:45:52       How well did you do? I got 11th that year. Wow. That's amazing. It's crazy. You couldn't finish and then a year later you get 11th, 11th in 2008. And then [inaudible] at that time really like, we were like, yeah,

Speaker 4:          00:46:05       bad news bears. Like I had no idea what I was doing. Like my dad came out to like help me crew and a couple buddies from out here and none of us knew anything about anything and I just wanted to finish, you know, and I just wanted to like not die. So I, I approached it like very conservatively, but I ended up exceeding my expectations. So I thought I wonder what would happen if I spent a year like preparing to go back and actually race it, you know, rather than just trying to finish and kind of being timid about it. So for 2009 I trained my ass off and I went back and uh, and I ended up getting out. I got out of the swim with a 10 minute lead on the next guy and then I held that lead for the rest of that day through that 90 mile bike. So I finished the first day with a 10 minute lead on, on the field.

Speaker 7:          00:46:51       Ten minutes? Yeah. Hugely going into detail. But that was a race car though. Ridiculous. He must have thought I was crazy because I didn't see anyone else all day, you know, like as I was out in front

Speaker 4:          00:47:04       and uh, my wife and my kids were crewing me actually, so I was having to kind of like tell them what to do. And they were great but it wasn't like they had experienced

Speaker 7:          00:47:13       anything like this, which made me very nervous. So what is a crew person that I do well there in, each competitor has to bring a van and that van is filled with like all your shit man. So you gotta have all your food that you're gonna eat, like while you're racing and then, and then afterwards, you

Speaker 4:          00:47:30       know, ice for ice baths afterwards and they're filling your bottles and feeding them, feeding, bu they kind of leapfrog you in park and then you do bottle handoff. So you always have nutrition on the bike and uh, and they keep you, make sure you don't take any wrong. Turns like they, they're in charge of navigating and just, you know, and if you have anything mechanically goes wrong with your bike or whatever, extra parts. So, and it's filled with all your clothes because you're going around the island, you're not going back to where you started that day. You're going to stay in a different place each night, so you have to have all your stuff with you. So these vans are like packed from Florida ceiling with stuff. Wow. I would've never thought that much involved in racing. Yeah. Logistically it's very, it's, it's, it's, there's a lot that goes into it to pull it off and everything.

Speaker 4:          00:48:11       Now is there, does everybody know how to apply nutrition to these races? Is it like a consensus or do some people try to do them without eating? There's no way you can do it without eating. I mean you got along the way. You got to be taking in. I mean the consensus is you got to take in about two to 300 calories an hour and everybody's stomachs different and the intensity with which you're, you're going will depend upon how well you can digest the food. Like if you're on the rivet and going hard, it's gonna be harder to digest calories and the kind of calories become more important because you can't, you're not gonna be able to eat solid food if you're hammering, you know what I mean? What do you, what do you eat, do eat fruits. So I eat what I eat is probably different than, than certain other.

Speaker 4:          00:48:56       Everybody has their own thing. Um, I like to stay away from the shirt, like a lot of endurance athletes run or whatever, you know, usually kind of Gatorade, econ of stuff like cytomax and the, that kind of stuff, that real high sugar stuff. But when you're going all day, like you're going to be out on a racecourse for eight or nine hours and then you've got to do it the next day. Your, your system can't handle that. So I try to eat a more like a lower glycaemic higher carbohydrate, a fuel source. So they have this stuff called par carbo pro or something called perpetuum. They're like Maltodextrin powders. So it's, it's a like a low-glycemic kind of carpet, complex carbohydrate fuel source. And you can put like 900 calories in one bottle and you can kind of sip off that. It's like pancake batter, taste terrible.

Speaker 4:          00:49:43       But I'll eat, I'll eat bananas. I'll put like a lightly baked. Yams are good. Dates are good. And then how come only lightly baked. Um, because if they're overcooked that like fries, a lot of the nutrition out of them. But you want a soft enough like there's, they're almost like you can squeeze them into your mouth, are easy to digest when you're riding a bike, you know? And they have most of the nutrition in them. Yeah. They're great for nutrition. Yeah. Sorry, what is it the kills in determining if it breaks down the tissue like that? How come it doesn't kill the nutrition of it makes it all soft and mushy? Well you just don't. If you, if you, if you like completely fry it and overcook it, then it becomes like a dead thing. Right? Do they know exactly what temperature it down? Yeah, I mean somebody probably does so don't. I've always wondered about like cooking, like

Speaker 6:          00:50:28       killing vitamins, like at when, like they say if you lightly sauteed, you're okay. Like, are you sure you know? At what level does it, is it really that bad to eat them raw that we have to fucking jazz everything up with, with fire and hot metal? Yeah, I know. Well, we're the only animals that cook our food, right? We're also the only animals with tvs are the only animals that drive cars were the only owls that talk to each other. Disagree with how good shit tastes when you cook it. We talked to each other dude, fucking shit. Taste good. When he could have hit that is the problem. It does taste better. Like, like um, you know, there's even vegetable dishes that are absolutely delicious because they're cooked, you know, but that's just not as good for your body. Well, I don't know. It seems like there's differing schools of thought on that.

Speaker 6:          00:51:18       I mean, I think that, you know, you have the really hardcore raw is they would just eat everything raw and certainly I think it's, it's, it's great to eat lots of raw foods. You know what I mean, like the raw foods you put in your, in your vitamix or whatever, and I eat a lot of raw foods, but I still eat cooked foods, you know, I got, I got to have me a little cook food just for the, like the feeling of it. Right. Comfort food. No. Do you eat pastas at all? I'll eat brown rice. Pasta, like the gluten free kind. The cql u of M is eat Kale. Zucchini bread too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I try not to overdo it on the pasta. I'm usually have more like brown rice stuff instead. Brown rice, steamed veggies, sauteed and top it off with the Coca Cola or perhaps a Pepsi Cola. Red Bull. Red Bull. Do you take any caffeine? What do, what are you thoughts on that?

Speaker 6:          00:52:09       I've gone back and forth on caffeine. I've, I've gone periods without it and then I've used it as well. Um, I think that, uh, you know, when you're using it compulsively and addictively it's not a good thing and fries your adrenals and makes you tired ultimately. Um, I think a cup of coffee in the morning is not the worst thing is particularly for an athlete. I mean it's definitely a performance enhancer, like if I'm going out for a long bike ride, you know, a nice little strong cup of coffee before my ride. Definitely I can definitely feel the difference. But yeah, I think it, you know, you can't be just hammering coffee all day long. I like a Nice Cup of coffee before a podcast and a Nice Cup of coffee before Jujitsu, like to get a little bit. It's really a crutch. It is, it is this week, but I've gone periods when I, when I don't drink coffee at all and I feel fine and you know, mental lapse back into drinking it from time to time. Well I, uh, during periods of heavy writing, uh, I will drink a lot of fucking coughing and uh, I had one day where I was working on this, this piece and I was up til like 5:00 in the morning just just wired with coffee and then the next day I tried no coffee and boy was that a trip? Like I had a headache all day, like my body was like, dude, let's just a cup of coffee.

Speaker 5:          00:53:26       Let's just feed the demon. The demon given a little. It's like I was like, I got to be careful. Like this is how you get addicted to powerful drug. And I was setting, I was setting the stage for addiction. I was like also I had a headache. Like I didn't, I didn't want to not have the caffeine, you know, so just was taking too much and it was over a course of a few days where I was like really hitting it hard writing. You have to be careful because fucking I had headaches, I had withdrawals, but I found that a really strenuous exercise. Like if I have anything wrong with me, if I have a jet lag, if I'm a little out of it from landing somewhere and I can't shake the cobwebs loose, just really intense, strenuous exercise just seems to reset the whole thing. Snaps. You wrote back snaps you right back. I really, I really feel bad for people who don't exercise, who tried to travel a lot because I hear people tell me that they're fucked up for like two weeks and they're like, that's crazy. I've been traveling

Speaker 4:          00:54:24       a lot lately and that's the only thing I, I don't sleep great. And hotel rooms and just, you know, that first night in a new environment or whatever, it's always a little off and you know, the first thing when I get there just I've got to work out or whatever. It's, it's exactly what it is. You got to wipe the slate clean and then it just, it really helps with the jet lag and the sleep and acclimating and everything.

Speaker 5:          00:54:44       Yeah. It's. And it's one of those things we just got to start it, just get it going and then once you get it going, it's sort of takes care of itself and you're in the middle of it. It feels great, but it's like that first step of doing that first squat during that first anything. It's like, oh, come on now, but if you can overcome that, it gives you that feeling like, like lately I've got a lot of shit done that I wanted to get done and I got this great feeling because of that, you know, it's got a lot like momentum, you know, whenever I feel like that I'm accomplishing things that I wanted to do and you know, do like a I, you know, I set out to do x today and I got it all done. It's like, yes. I'm like, the next day I feel like a little more charged up. I feel like I've gotten, well look, I'm doing what I'm trying to get done. I'm getting it done. I'm feeling great about it. And a lot of people I think don't have that. They don't build that momentum enough in their life. They don't know. Pick a few goals, lock onto them, go with it, and then let it build up to something else. Let it build up to more, let it build up to the next thing. And also I think that there's this weird thing

Speaker 4:          00:55:44       equation with exercise because it's so easy to say you don't have time or busy or whatever and you know, I go through that a lot and, and, and it's easy to justify not doing it, but ultimately when I just quiet that thought and do it anyway, I ended up getting more done and everything that I needed to get done ends up getting done. And if I don't do it, I ended up wasting time and I'm less productive and I'm not thinking clearly. And there's a lot of like down wasted time.

Speaker 5:          00:56:10       I think everybody has a different sort of biology and uh, I know, I know this for sure. People have different needs so I don't say that everybody needs it, you know, I mean I think it benefits, but I don't know that everybody needs it, but I certainly know that I need it when I don't have it. It makes a big difference. I don't like the way I feel. I don't like to. I don't like getting annoyed at things too easily. I don't like this weird testosterone buildup that happens after a few days of not exploding on something, you know, it's like my body's become most certainly addicted to that release and it knows that it can navigate social water's better when it's just totally drained of all the Monkey Dna, you know, if I don't get that out at the gym, I don't feel like I'm as nice a person.

Speaker 5:          00:56:55       I don't feel like I'm as balanced. My wife will just kick me out of the house. He needed to go ride your bike or do something. Don't come back until you do. I have a, a crazy gym in my house. It's in the garage. Like half of the garage was done for a company called Garage Mahal. Wow. So my garage has set up. It's got mats. I've got a grappling dummy that I strangle. I like to Jujitsu on a dummy and I have a kickboxing bags and ropes to climb so I never have to go anywhere. It's always right there. So there. That cuts out a lot of the fucking bullshit and procrastination with a 20 minute ride to the gym. And then I only have 40 minutes to work out because if I just took a nap right now, maybe I would perform better tonight and they can just do some working out at home tonight.

Speaker 5:          00:57:39       I haven't been in my house. For me, it's huge. The ability to just go outside. And even when I was broke, I always had a heavy bag, you know, tied something to the rafters in the garage. You know, having something like that is to me having just a place where you can lease, release it's some way. Know, get that fucking blow out in some way. So important for maximizing sanity. I need it. I don't know. Some people, some people don't need it. I just sneezed a lot. Yeah, Brian's fine without it. I'm telling you, it's not even an angry guy. Um, I think, uh, it's, it's a, it's a great benefit to everybody. People can get through life without that benefit, but just silly, silly to do it. That's what I tell him. I'm like, you're silly. He got, he got really skinny at one point in time though. Brian was like way fat at one point in time and then he went crazy weightwatchers and he shrunk down to like a tiny man. Strange.

Speaker 2:          00:58:36       Yeah. Where are you at now? Uh, I'm about halfway back to what I used to, but now it's more just a. I eat barely little, like I eat only at like nine or 10:00 at night until I go to bed. But it's not like I eat crazy bad. It's more like I'll go home and eat lean pockets in a salad or something and they don't eat until nine at night. You literally known any food all day and it's mostly because of starbucks.

Speaker 5:          00:59:09       That's double shot. He gets Trenta double shots, which is basically cancer. It's just cancer in a liquid form. Go

Speaker 2:          00:59:18       all day, all day. And then you hit the lean pockets at and it

Speaker 4:          00:59:22       out. Yeah. It's fucking super good for you. You're on the right track. So here's a, here's a, here's a video of me, uh, when you were super skinny, super skinny, you got really what, what is the lightest you got? You got below one 70, right? You don't think this mother fucker doesn't want to hear about Rick Rolling when you name is rich roll. How annoying is that everyday, man. So fucking day. That's so rude. And it came out of nowhere too. You lived most of your life without a, without a rick roll. And then all the sudden this one fucking song. The Internet is so bizarre. The Bane of my existence, you know, it's funny too. There's a, uh, you know, this rapper Nipsey Hussle, Nipsey Hussle and he has a song called rich roll, right? So it's, so, it's, it's all about the rich roll and the. And so my twitter feed fills up with all this crazy insanity from people re tweeting the song that I guess it's a pretty popular song.

Speaker 4:          01:00:24       And so I have to do, you know, like I'm getting confused with this guy. You should embrace it. You should go like the opposite of what Rick Ross did. You should do a music video, you should claim the real rich roll son, right? You know, and then maybe you can like hip hop people into being vegans. It's so close to being to, to Rick Ross too, so it's all confused. It is, right? You know, it's right there. It's right next door. Neighbors just by a lot of trench coats or you'll be good. Do you, um, fuck around with probiotics, do you? Um, yeah, a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. There's some pretty good like plant based ones. I have this, a nutrition guru, my buddy compton rom, he's got a name, his name is Compton Rom. You should actually playing on, he would make an incredible guest like blow your mind.

Speaker 4:          01:01:13       You can come watch videos of him on Youtube. You've talked about some crazy stuff like that. Just like the energy of food and he's super into like he said, he has a phd in microbiology and so he's helped me a lot with like my nutrition and spent a little bit of a mentor and he's got a startup company called ascended health and he's all about trying to find the best superfoods all over the world and provide them to uh, to customers. And he's traveling all the time. He's going to like Thailand, all these crazy places. Trying to find places where he can grow this stuff and so I would go to his house and his house look like in his kitchen. It looked like a, it looks like a giant meth labs. It's got all these tubes everywhere and all this crazy stuff. He's like, oh, you gotta try this.

Speaker 4:          01:01:54       I just got this reservoir trollin from. It's from the finest Bordeaux grapes, Scans. Stuff's amazing. I'm gonna, I'm going to make up A. I'm going to make some powder for you. And he's, he's always trying to like help me with my like training and racing nutrition by giving me some of this crazy stuff. And so his whole thing is, um, he's super knowledgeable about probiotics and microbes because he studied microbes and like, um, like the Gi tract microbial activity forever and ever and knows more about it than anyone I've ever met. And it's fascinating because I talk a little bit about this in my book too, that we think we're, you know, we're made up of trillions of cells, right? And we think we're these sentient beings and we have control over what we think and our decisions. And all of that, but at the same time we have to realize that we're, we have like 10 times the number of our cells and microbes in our gut alone, like our microbial ecology in our Gi tract has like, you know, 10 times the number of microorganisms compared to all of our cells in our entire body and there's been these studies that have come out and they're starting to come out where they're studying, um, the extent to which your microbial ecology in your gut can trigger your nervous system and actually impulse you in a decision making way.

Speaker 4:          01:03:15       And they've discovered like links between what kind of microbial ecology do you have in your gut and the and the foods that you crave. So yeah. Yeah. And, and, and so like having like probiotics are all about improving the health of your, your flora in your gut. Right? And if you have healthy flora it, it craves and feeds on healthy foods. Right? But if you go to Jack in the box every day or you eat lean pockets every night, then you're going to have, you're gonna have like a different kind of microbial ecology, like the microbes that are in that food starts to propagate in your gut and that takes over and that becomes the ecology and they're realizing that that ecology then sends signals to your brain that makes you crave more of those foods. So it's that craving cycle that I was talking about earlier.

Speaker 4:          01:04:01       It's so easy and it sounds insane. But then I was thinking about that. Um, you saw, remember I'm the documentary super size me. Yes. So, so Morgan spurlock, when he first starts out, remember he's like getting sick when he's eating McDonald's. Like you can't handle it. Like he barfs out the window one day when he's a couple of days in like cannot manage. He's like a can't imagine going back to Mcdonald's. He's only like three days in. He's getting sick all the time. And then fast forward like a couple days later and he wakes up with headaches and he's like creating the food and he and his headaches won't go away until he goes to Mcdonald's. So it's like you can make the argument that that could be attributable to a change in his microbial ecology, you know, like now he's replaced as healthy because I think his wife or his girlfriend at the time, it was like a Vegan chef. He was eating really clean and then he just starts eating this Mcdonald's and he replaced is that microbial ecology and his gut with the kind that feeds on Mcdonald's and suddenly it's creating it all.

Speaker 5:          01:05:00       Did you imagine if they found out that Mcdonald's actually had implanted microbial biology, that they, that they created in a lab that specifically makes you want their shitty cheeseburgers? He just just fucking crave that cheeseburger. Oh, Mcdonald's that

Speaker 1:          01:05:18       I. I saw a thing online where it dude left one out for six months and it never rot. It saw that and I was like, check please. That's it. I'm done no more. It's only filet of fishes which are nutritious and delicious. And he let out that it was the burger and the fries too. Maybe even. I saw that though. I don't think the fries rod either. It's fucking crazy. It's a, it's not food. It's like it's just filler. It's weird. I mean it's like gut filler. I mean you can live on it for short periods of time. It's better than starving to death, man. That stuff is fucking bad for you. So

Speaker 7:          01:05:55       calm and it's everywhere. And his numbers from that movie, like just after 30 days, it's doctor was like, yeah, this is bad. Crazy bat. And it took him like a couple of years to like lose the weight and get back to his baseline. Did it really? Yeah. I mean it said it took them a really long time. Well that sounds like he's a lazy bitch. Lost weight curriculum a couple of years. But I think if it wasn't just his weight, it was like as cholesterol levels and all that kind of really. Did he try to go Vegan after that? Or heavy vegetable dye? I don't know. I mean, I know his girlfriend who was a Vegan chef, so I would imagine he returned to something along that lines, but I don't know. Well, what do you think of when you hear guys like Rob Wolf say eat bacon and eggs for breakfast?

Speaker 7:          01:06:36       Well, I mean the first thing I would say is that, that, you know, have a lot of respect for rob. I think rob, great guy. Yeah. And I love the interview and you know, Robin, I have the same goal. You know what I mean? Like we're both working towards the same thing which is trying to get people healthier and more fit. You know, we differ on a couple subcategories of that. But like I think rob is, is doing good stuff. I mean I, I definitely disagree when he says you should eat bacon and eggs for breakfast and I think that, you know, and I remember your reaction to that even you were like surprised that that was, that I'd never heard. I never heard. I've never heard anyone say that myself.

Speaker 1:          01:07:14       I've never heard anyone say that Kale shakes. Like don't eat kale shakes. You don't need. Right. So, so

Speaker 7:          01:07:21       a lot about Paleo that I think is fantastic, you know, they, they issued dairy, they shoe process foods and the oil that they say is okay. Is Olive oil in moderation? Um, you know, we disagree. It's a very, like the idea is low carb, right? Like it's low carb, high protein and I think that that works really well for losing weight and maybe works for some people in terms of energy levels. But my perspective on the whole thing is I'm coming from looking at the healthcare crisis in America where like people are just keeling over with heart attacks constantly. You know what I mean? Heart disease is rampant, you know, and people are getting diabetes like crazy and you know, even children are getting diabetes. I mean when we were kids, diabetes wasn't really a thing right now. Like diabetes is a huge thing. Like obesity and obesity figures are insane. Like 40 percent

Speaker 4:          01:08:16       of Americans are going to be obese by 2014 and childhood obesity rates are crazy and school lunches are terrible. And, and when I look at it like that, like I think that, um, you know, I can't get around the fact that when I read the studies on plant based nutrition, you know, when you read the China study or you read Dr Russell Austin's book prevent and reverse heart disease, there's a pretty clear correlation between getting rid of the meat and dairy and eating a whole food, plant based diet and your ability to repair your body from these conditions that are plaguing us unnecessarily. I mean, heart disease, a foodborne illness, you know, you can not only prevent it, you can actually reverse it. And this, this guy, Dr Nelson, have you ever heard of this guy? Yes. Okay. So for maybe your listeners who don't know, he is a, he's a bad ass.

Speaker 4:          01:09:07       First of all, the guy was, he's Yale educated in these Olympic gold medalist in rowing and like 1968 and I think it was a, I think he's uh, uh, I think he was a Vietnam. Uh, I think he's a Vietnam veteran also. I'm not sure about that. But then he became a surgeon and he was, uh, you know, the head surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic, which is if you have heart disease or heart problems, like that's where you want to go, like those. But Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, yeah. Those ones you're feeling like shit, right. Go to Cleveland. He's, yeah. They know what's up there. And like back in the seventies, he started to realize that when he treated his patients with, uh, with a plant based whole food diet, that they were able to reverse their heart disease without surgery. And He, and he was starting to look at the, the um, what are you?

Speaker 4:          01:09:50       I'm having a brain fart. The uh, what are those pictures of the heart called the angiograms. So you'd see these before and after angiograms and you could clearly see, you know, the clogged arteries becoming clear again and, and, and it working. And that was not a popular thing like in the 19 seventies, in the 19 eighties. And you know, to a large degree, it's still not popular, but you know, it didn't make him a popular surgeon there because. Well, because they make money off of surgery, you know, and you're saying the putting that information out that you can heal yourself through vegetables was not popular because they literally wanted people to be sicker. It's not that they will make money, it's not. It's not that they wanted people to be sicker, it's just that the system is set up, you know, the way that you profit is by performing expensive surgery.

Speaker 4:          01:10:38       That is the way they profit, but it's a big leap between that and being upset at something that heals people. It's not, it's not. I don't think that it was that they were upset. It was that it was new and there wasn't enough evidence at that time to fully substantiate what he was doing and they had their sort of, this is what we do here and when somebody comes in and they're in this condition, we prescribe this procedure and he was saying, I don't want to do that. I want to do this like intensive diet thing with them and counsel them and see if I can avoid that. And that was not. That was not a popular option. Okay. That that makes

Speaker 5:          01:11:13       more sense. So the, uh, essentially the, the doctors had a very specific path that they would follow when you had x wrong with you and that that path usually lead to some sort of surgery and he was trying to avoid that with festivals.

Speaker 7:          01:11:29       Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's still true today. And we were talking about statens you go in with high cholesterol or whatever your doctor is, most likely you're going to prescribe you statens he may say, you know, change your diet or do this and then you'll come back and, and it doesn't change. And then he'll say, well, it's genetic and you need to take this medicine when in fact, you know, I, I, I believe that it actually, you can lower your cholesterol if you change your diet properly, but, but the point getting back to Dr Esselstyn is that, you know, he was sort of blazing this trail a long time ago back when, you know, not too many people were listening and it's taken many, many years to kind of get traction with this. And it's taken, you know, the China study and, and his book. And the documentary forks over knives to get people sort of paying attention and listening now and now there's kind of like an awareness that didn't exist before and that the scientific studies are, are pretty compelling that when you, you know, you remove the animal proteins, you remove the processed foods and you remove the dairy that you can really heal yourself.

Speaker 5:          01:12:28       And so if you, um, cut, I mean it is what it has. Has it been proven that that is the order that works, hasn't been proven that if you cut out the dairy, cut out the processed food, cut out the meat specifically on vegetable live, off of vegetables, vegetable nutrition, that that is the only way to go. Or have they done vegetable nutrition and grass fed meat and natural meat? Yeah. There's plenty of studies out there. And what do they show? What are the differences between

Speaker 7:          01:12:54       that? It's the, the, the actual animal protein is the, is the activator of have a lot of the congenital diseases really? Yeah.

Speaker 5:          01:13:04       And what do they attribute that to? Just even, uh, even game or is it fatty meats

Speaker 7:          01:13:10       even even game? Well, certainly the saturated fat doesn't help, but there's something about the animal proteins themselves and in particular the Casein, which is the, the, the protein in the dairy that, that proves problematic and what does it do specifically to the human body? That's a good question. I have, which I wish Dr Esselstyn was here to answer that are starting to get a little too technical. I don't want, I don't want to speak out of school or say the wrong or or

Speaker 5:          01:13:35       so. What they found though essentially was that a lot of ailments are started and in the activator for starting these ailments and diseases is animals to see eat animals, you're going to get certain diseases that you would avoid if you just ate vegetables. Right? Right.

Speaker 7:          01:13:49       And the China study originated around studying cultures where there really wasn't any animal products or animal proteins in their diet and looking at the, at the extent of cardiovascular disease. So there was a certain, um, area in China where a, it had a huge population of 260,000 people or something like that.

Speaker 4:          01:14:12       The incidence of heart disease was almost zero. Wow, that's crazy. And so here again, this long epidemiological study where they really took a hard look at it and it's interesting. It's really interesting.

Speaker 1:          01:14:23       That's incredible. The number zero, that's ridiculous. I don't know if it was zero, but it was close as you're always very, very, very low. Do, um, that, that's incredible. What, how do they make sure that they get the proper amount of protein and the proper amount of amino acids. But from what I understand, the real issue with the Vegan Diet is you have to be really diligent about the, uh, the proper proteins that you get because I'm all the various pr, like even Broccoli has protein in it, but it doesn't have like a complete protein like, like say meat does, but there's keenwah and hemp is a very complete protein. But how do you make sure that you get the right amount?

Speaker 4:          01:15:01       Well, I think there's a lot of misconceptions about that and there's been a lot of sort of deepened king of the complete versus incomplete argument that gets pretty technical. But I think that if you're eating a well rounded, balanced plant based diet with lots of different, you know, if you're essentially, if you're eating grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables and all the different colors and you know, you're rotating them through or whatever, then you're not going to have a problem. It's almost like nature is rigged. It, you're not going to have a protein deficiency. And you know, just speaking from my own experience with this, when I first started on the Vegan Diet, you know, I was nervous about that. I was scared about, especially as I was starting to train more and more and uh, my cabinet was full of all kinds of crazy supplements, just tons. And I was like just mounds and mounds of plant based proteins in my shakes because I was nervous that I was going to injure myself or you know, it was going to get sick or something like that. And over the last couple of years I've slowly started weaning myself off of a lot of that stuff where I use very, very little now. And I haven't noticed a difference in my ability to one recover in between workouts or build lean muscle mass or endurance. And my endurance is continuing to improve. So I do use, you know, I use hemp protein, I love him protein. Um, I usually combine it with like pea protein or, or sprouted brown rice protein.

Speaker 1:          01:16:29       Wait, what protein? Protein. I had some today in honor of this podcast that's different from urine therapy. Yeah. Ps, man, it's very high in protein. So what is the fucking do it? I don't know.

Speaker 4:          01:16:43       I don't even do it every day. Like I only do it when I'm training really hard or I feel like, you know what, I'm not gonna, you know, I don't have any lines, holes in the house or something like that. I'm always trying to source my proteins from whole foods. So the misconception is that you gotta, you gotta eat tons and tons of protein and you can only get, you know, real good protein quality protein from animal products. Like I just don't believe that to be true.

Speaker 1:          01:17:04       You remember when that dude wasn't Travis Barker got into a, a

Speaker 5:          01:17:10       plane crash. And he got burned and he needed a drummer. Yes. He needed a, um, a skin graft and when he had a skin graft, his body was not healing until he started eating meat again. And we started eating meat again. It started healing rapidly. Interesting. He said that was a, he was a vegan before that, but he had to stop being a Vegan. I'm pretty sure. I don't want to paraphrase this guy's story, but, uh, I'm pretty sure that is a, how he said it. Is there any possible benefit in your eyes to eating animal protein for as far as performance, physical performance as far as a mean even though it may be the catalyst to a, triggering certain ailments in certain individuals and that can be documented. Is it also possible that there's a benefit to it too? And from a performance perspective? Yes. It's certainly, it's certainly possible. I don't know. Especially in the fast twitch sports.

Speaker 4:          01:18:04       Yeah. I mean, you know, what I do is so long it's a very specific kind of sport that's very different from Jujitsu or sprint running or anything like that. But there are plenty of athletes out there in various disciplines that seem to be, that seemed to be doing well, but, you know, has there been a double blind, you know, sort of case study on the difference. I don't know the answer to that. Um, and I think that, that, uh, you know, for me, it goes back to um, the reason that I started doing this to begin with, which was, you know, really longterm wellness and, and, you know, not having a heart attack like heart disease runs in my family. My grandfather who was a champion swimmer died of a heart attack in his early fifties. And, you know, I have to constantly remind myself that that was what motivated me to do this, to begin with. It wasn't performance reasons. Um, at the same time, if I felt like I was missing something, like if I started to feel like I wasn't recovering or it wasn't improving or I wasn't, I wasn't able to get stronger or I wasn't feeling good, I would, I would certainly entertain the possibility of eating, of eating meat if I thought my health was suffering. But I just haven't had that experience yet, so, you know, I just try to stick to, you know, I, I don't want to speak for anyone else or whatever. So

Speaker 5:          01:19:16       how do you feel about that idea that everybody's got a different sort of nutritional requirement and that some people really shouldn't eat red meat and some people really should be vegetarians. It's like that. It's uh, you know, based on your blood or where your families origins are geographically and that's the kind of genes that you're carrying around.

Speaker 4:          01:19:36       I Dunno, I don't really buy into any of that. No, no.

Speaker 5:          01:19:41       But has there been evidence that different people that grow up in different parts of the world have different nutritional requirements? Like for instance, people that live in like Eskimos are inuits, they don't like to be called escalade apparently. Um, inuits, they, they have no issues as far as like scurvy or anything, but they're not getting any vitamin C than samples. I have

Speaker 4:          01:20:02       like a, they have a relatively high incidence of heart disease. Oh, do they really do. Yeah. Um,

Speaker 6:          01:20:08       they, um, I thought the whole deal I was, is it cancer that they, the, that you almost never see? Yeah. And annually population. And they were attributing that to uh, the uh, nutrition that they got from fish oil. Do you, uh, do substitute with any animal? I'm like fish oil or anything like that.

Speaker 4:          01:20:26       No, I mean, you know, I think getting your Omega threes is, is really important. Um, you know, fish oil is really popular with a lot of people, but you can essentially do the same thing with flax seeds, ground flax seeds. I wouldn't, I wouldn't use flax oil, but like ground flax seeds or something. I put in a vitamix all the time. Why wouldn't choose the, uh, actual oil? The oil has been linked to. There's some evidence that suggests that it's linked to incidents of prostate cancer, but for some reason the seeds aren't, took the seeds, the seeds have like the case, you know, like they have that casing on them or whatever. So you have to grind them up because otherwise they'll just pass right through you.

Speaker 6:          01:21:04       So I'm a kind of like a vitamix. Yeah. Yeah. Or You can, you can buy them ground or you can put them in like a, a coffee grinder or like a cuisinart or something like that. What about hemp oil? It's supposed to be pretty neutral oil and all that stuff has the same benefits as fish oil and. Well, flax seeds are the closest from my understanding. Does it have the same benefits as far as like a joint inflammation relief? Because fish oil is incredible for, for that.

Speaker 4:          01:21:32       I mean, I think, I think it's important when it comes to joint relief and, and looking at inflammation is looking at the acidic or alkaline nature of the foods that you're eating, you know, and, and, uh, animal products, dairy, dairy, meat tend to be very acid forming. Like your body has a certain Ph, right? It's trying to, it's trying to maintain that sort of Ph right in the middle. Um, but you know, the foods we eat and the toxins we breathe in the air and stress of our lives or whatever can all put, you know, try to push that one way or the other and that our body has to kind of go into hyperdrive to bring it back to its normal state. So the truth is, is that most people that are eating a standard American diet and you know, living in North American way of life, um, are eating a predominantly acidic acid forming diet and they're in a state of what's called chronic acidosis.

Speaker 4:          01:22:20       And that's a, that's a state in which you know, you're constantly bombarding your body with a very asset based diet and your body has to kind of go into hyperdrive to bring it, to bring it back. And that's an environment where you become very rife for getting injured, for getting sick. And it's also, you know, an environment that is, makes you more prone to those congenital diseases. So when you're eating a more plant based diet, those are, those tend to be not every plant food or whatever, but it tends, it tends to be in balance, more alkaline forming and when you're, when you're in a more alkaline state, you're not getting sick, you're recovering more quickly because inflammation is, is sort of the root cause for a zillion diseases and it's like the enemy of the athlete, right? You're always trying to like, if you can reduce your inflammation, your muscles are going to repair themselves more quickly, you're gonna be able to bounce back quicker, you'll be able to train harder. It doesn't necessarily make you a better athlete, right? You know, in a short period of time. But protracted over the course of the season, you're going to have a much more efficient and effective training period. And that's gonna result in performance gains in the long run.

Speaker 1:          01:23:26       So you're essentially saying that all the benefits of taking fish oil, you could get those same benefits. It would just changing your diet to a vegetarian diet that you don't need fish oil with respect

Speaker 4:          01:23:38       fish oil. I mean, the purpose of fish oil is to get those omega threes, those essential fatty acids, right? That are, that are important. I mean, you know, we, you know, there's a lot of talk about the fas and the Omega six and the Omega three and we get plenty of Omega six and all the foods we eat or whatever, but the problem comes when the ratio of six to three is kind of off. And most people don't get enough Omega three in their diets and fish oil is great for kind of rectifying that, but it's just the, you know, my point is only that it's not the only way of dealing with that.

Speaker 1:          01:24:09       What are the other vegetarian options besides a hemp oil, flax seed

Speaker 4:          01:24:14       oil and um, uh, walnuts. I believe there's some nuts that are, that are pretty high in how many do you have to eat? Hemp seeds? Not that many. Really. You don't, you don't need like a ton of this stuff

Speaker 1:          01:24:26       with fish oil. Um, I've been on like a really high fish oil diet for a long time now. I'd take like five, 5,000, 500 milligrams mill, thousand milligram pill. I take five of those in the morning and five of those at night. And when I don't do it, I noticed a difference in how my joints feel like from doing a lot of Jujitsu, especially

Speaker 4:          01:24:47       I think interested in if you, if you switched it up to um, ground flax seeds if you felt a difference or not.

Speaker 1:          01:24:52       Yeah, I would be willing to try it. But I always thought that it was like a, almost like there was like lubricating. It doesn't make sense really, but that it was like deputy for doing so. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. We'd be like, how much oil would you need to move up the fucking. And that's how I thought it in my head because there was such a correlation between taking these pills and joint pain relief that I've found that a lot. I read a lot of great things about fish oil and studies on fish oil and there's absolutely some nutritional benefit to taking it. I don't know why you wouldn't take it unless it was because of the fact that you wanted to, um, not have anything animal in your body, like to just subscribe to. Well, I think

Speaker 4:          01:25:31       you, you have to be careful with the toxins that are in marine life too, right?

Speaker 1:          01:25:35       Well, it's all filtered by Ebola, Carlson's fish oil, that's all they, they test that stuff and it's all filtered out and there's nothing. You don't have to worry about that. And those are the very high end companies. They, um, they, they test all their stuff, but I just don't see why there would be, um, unless you were into it strictly from the point of view of staying Vegan or introducing no animal into your body at all. It doesn't seem like there's any thing that you lose from taking fish oil. There's um, I mean,

Speaker 4:          01:26:04       it's interesting because anytime you say this food is good, then you can immediately go on the Internet and find some reason why shot or something. You can fall into any category that. And, and uh, there are, there are some studies out there that show that, that the fish oil thing is a little overhyped and you know, I, it's, it's hard to quantify like who's right and who's wrong and all that kind of stuff. Have you ever, have you been to a, a, um, there's a, there's a guy named Dr Michael Greger. He's got a site called nutrition facts.org and it's amazing. It's good. The guy has like a zillion, he puts up videos like almost every day and they're short. They're like two to five minutes at Max and you can look at, you can enter in any food or any disease or whatever and most likely as a short video on it and it's all based on peer reviewed scientific studies or whatever. But I always go to that one. I have a question about this food or that. It's a really good resource.

Speaker 5:          01:26:54       I went to a nutrition for the first time when I was like 17 and I was losing weight for martial arts competitions and those fucking my body up and I was trying to figure out how to monitor my nutrition, how to, you know, ilene myself out in the healthiest way possible, but drop the most weight before I had to dehydrate myself. But uh, that was Nancy Clark who is pretty famous for working with athletes. She was in Boston at the time. She's got a bunch of books on that stuff and I think she's worked with, uh, other mma athletes to now this is way after. I mean, I, I must've done it, did it with her and 85 or something like that. But that's when I first became, it was from martial arts competition before I had to worry about my diet. I didn't, I didn't watch what I ate at all.

Speaker 5:          01:27:37       I just ate what I felt like eating. Even when I was competing, I had no emphasis or focus on nutrition. It wasn't until I got older that I do, I just through trial and error and you know, just going on a whim and saying, you don't want this. I'm going to juice all day. I'm just going to have beet juice and carrot juice, celery juice, and I've done that a few times and you, you, you get. This is a weird kind of energy that you get from that intense plant nutrition that you don't get from anything else. You really don't. It's not the same feeling that you get when you have the satisfaction of a fat rib eye and it's just perfectly cooked and sliced into that medium. Rare, so good. It's not that satisfaction, but it is this weird sort of a vibrancy that you get like you're injecting.

Speaker 5:          01:28:27       You're ingesting live live plants. I mean essentially they've just died a short period of time ago. They're still vibrant with energy and you don't get that from anything processed and there's a lot of people out there that are miserable, that are depressed, that are. And I have friends that shit fucking diets and their. Their way of dealing with is take antidepressants and it's like there's no. You've got to know exercise. Terrible sleep shit. Di You feel terrible. Take a pill. You feel better. Really. You've got to clean up all that other stuff, man. And then see how you feel if you have all these goddamn issues as far as your diet, as far as your sleep, as far as, you know, stress levels get cleaned up. That shit first before you go take a gun damn pill. I mean, we're a nation of, of crazy people who are addicted to all these weird new, not natural non native chemicals that we're introducing into our body. And that would become addicted to it. I mean, if we could just look, if you could have a, a, a, an overlay of the United States and who's on the influence of any sort of a pharmaceutical drug right now.

Speaker 4:          01:29:37       It's like the Matrix. I mean, it really is. And, and, uh, you know, not to spend too much of a new age thing, but you know, you're, you're right at the food carries a vibrancy and an energy to it. It's very specific. And in my case, I've been on this crazy amazing journey that I would've never predicted and it honestly started with changing my diet and so I look at it with like a respect and a reverence and I go, this is, this is what catalyzed this path. And it opened me like, it opened my heart to the possibility of living differently and to doing different things than I was doing. And Look, you know, people are sicker than they've ever been. We're the, we're such a prosperous nation and people are just overmedicated. They're fat, they're unhealthy. And for the most part they're people.

Speaker 4:          01:30:24       You know, there's the, what do you think the level of happiness is now compared to what it was like 100 years ago? Do you think we're happier? Do you think we're more unhappy? Well, I think obviously it's an individual's. I'm happy as fuck. Yeah. I mean, the thing is you're doing what you're meant to be doing. You know what I mean? You're on, you're on a path that you know, you've been blazing for a long time, but you're, you know, you've made something happen that you're passionate about. But most people unfortunately don't live that kind of life.

Speaker 5:          01:30:52       That's true. But I think they could live their own version of it

Speaker 4:          01:30:58       but, but, but a lot of people don't. And I know this because I was a corporate lawyer. I was miserable. I was doing the 80 hour weeks and I had done everything right my whole life makes sense to do spine chill, you know, I studied hard, I got into the good schools and I, you know, I played the game, you know what I mean? And I, and I got to the place that was supposed to be the brass ring, you know, and I was like, what the fuck? I was like not happy and I felt lost and it's like a feeling of being in free fall and you have a choice, you can, you know, I was making a decent amount of money. So you know, a lot of people in that situation and they'll just, they'll just killed themselves with stuff they can't afford. Like, well I'll, I'll lease that car. That's a little bit out of my reach. And rewarding. Yeah, exactly. Because when you're unhappy, you know, you need something to solve that, that wound, and then you do that long enough and then you're stuck and you can't make a change or it becomes too difficult. And you know, I think it was, it was Henry David Thoreau that said, the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. I think that's very,

Speaker 7:          01:32:00       very true. One of my favorite quotes ever. And it's, it's sad, man. It's sad. And you know, I look at you, you've built this thing here, you're doing what you love. You spend your day last Brian below. But I mean, you're, you're like, you're, you're like, you know, in your Juju. You know what I mean? Yeah. And most people, most people aren't. I think that's okay. So He's, he's, he knows Jews. Yeah. No, most people aren't. But they could be, you know, but I think one of those heart, it's hard. I mean, you think it's hard to change your diet. I mean, try overhauling your entire lifestyle. Yeah. Oh, believe me. Very, very difficult and scary. It's terrifying, you know, and we live in a fear based culture, you know?

Speaker 5:          01:32:41       Um, but I did it, you know, I went from being a martial arts instructor to being a standup comedian and got my car repossessed, went broke, lost all my critical. I mean, it was a, a loser for like years that you were willing to double down to do that. I just didn't want to get brain damage. I saw a future in kickboxing and I was like, you know what, this is, uh, this, this stuff is not good for your fucking head. And I was meeting guys that Jim, the newer were punchy and uh, I just was too one. I did too many hard sparring sessions where I never got knocked out in sparring. But I definitely got my bell rung before. Um, and uh, I got hit with hard shots before we would, we would trade, you know, I worked out at a particularly heavy duty.

Speaker 5:          01:33:24       Jim and these, the different gyms have different philosophies as far as borrowing. And our, Jim's philosophy was he put on big gloves and you fucking go at it. There was, there was, it was basically kickboxing bouts with big giant gloves on and headgear and Shin Pads. And stuff like that. And uh, I knew that it was not good for you. So for me it was like I had this crazy like I got to jump ship, I got a job because this is a path of deteriorating brain function. Like I would have moments where I'd be lying in bed and it wasn't even like there was a, like a goal, like it wasn't, there was no ufc back then. So it was just kickboxing and in my opinion, like mixed martial arts is a, first of all it's just way more options and just because there's more options you could protect yourself, period.

Speaker 5:          01:34:09       There's no, I mean you could say that mixed martial arts fighters have damaged too, and I'll tell you some do, but there's some that don't have any. There's some that rarely get hit and that is possible as well. And the, the ability to mix up between the striking and the grappling and the fact that you have so many different options if you have a creative and spontaneous approach as well as being able to drill things over and over again until they become zen. When you reach a certain level, you can get away with way less damaged than any boxer does. Like you'll see a certain guys fight in a five round UFC fight and take very little damage like a George St Pierre because he's so fucking good and his plan is so good. But with boxing and kickboxing, you're standing in front of each other and you're hitting each other period and there's no downs and there's no.

Speaker 5:          01:34:58       There's no rear naked choke for the finish and the first round does none of that. There's, there's slamming bones into your head trying to shut that Mellon off, you know? And ultimately for me, I knew that I had to do something differently as I was terrified and there was no future in it, you know, but I. But because of that I developed a real compassion for understanding like how difficult it is. I was 21, I had no children. I had no. I mean they'd repossessed my car so I had no car anymore. It was like, it was really like I could live on the cheap, I could scratch by. But if you're a person who is trying to change careers and you have a family and your mortgage and you have a car that you lease and you've got to pay for your kids' afterschool activities and that is unbelievably hard, very hard. So then at the same time it's like,

Speaker 4:          01:35:47       you know, life's short man, and it's true, most people are not, are not doing what they, what they want to be doing, or maybe even what they're supposed to be doing.

Speaker 5:          01:35:55       So what did you do? How did you, how did you just exit yourself out from the machine?

Speaker 4:          01:36:00       Well, I, I had, uh, you know, I left corporate law firm life and started my own, my own little thing and you know, because I just couldn't, I couldn't live that way anymore. What little thing that you're talking about? Just a solo entertainment law practice. Um, and you know, made a lot less money but was able to control my time. And that was just a little bit before, you know, I changed the Diet and started getting back into fitness. But because I had control over my day because I didn't have a boss anymore, I could set up my work schedule the way that I want, like Tim ferriss style. Then it allowed me to be able to, to, um, train at odd hours that wouldn't necessarily flow with somebody, you know, nine to five job. But I was able to structure my life so that I could make that possible. And again, it was just feeling like, you know, when you feel like you're guided to move in a certain direction in a certain path, you know, when your car was repossessed and you were starting to, you know, do stand up and move into that world. I mean, I'm sure you felt like this is what you want it to be doing what you're supposed to be doing. Even if there was no kind of real world material affirmation of that. Initially

Speaker 5:          01:37:05       it was, there was a lot of apprehension. There was a lot of thinking that I was fucking up, but I was doing the wrong thing. I mean, there was a, there was not much confidence. It's certainly not like a, I knew this was my path, like I had an idea that this was something that I could do, but I was terrified because I sucked at it too. There was no evidence that I could ever be really good at it. When I quit teaching martial arts, I mean I was teaching at Boston University. I had my own school and um, I was, uh, it was making a living, teaching taekwondo and then delivered newspapers sometimes in the morning, occasionally take newspaper routes. Um, I took to switch from that, give up training and teaching entirely altogether to, to, to do something that I wasn't very good at. It was fucking terrible. That was a terrifying movie that I would only make when I was 21. And you know, when you're 21

Speaker 6:          01:37:56       year old fucking cocky with. But you know this like if I was going to do that in this day and age, is that really one of those old school alarms right outside

Speaker 8:          01:38:05       you? Dumb motherfucker.

Speaker 6:          01:38:08       But it'd be very hard for me to do something like that today. Well, yeah, it's different when you're 21, but I mean is, does anybody pay attention to car alarms ever? I don't know. Open the door, Brian and make it louder. That's a good move. Yeah. Your instinct is never. Oh my God. Somebody stealing a car. No fucking alarm is ruining our conversation. Is anybody anybody in, in standup good in the beginning? No, because I heard that everybody says they were, you know, they were awful when they can think that they're good.

Speaker 8:          01:38:38       What are you doing, man? Shut up my microphone off.

Speaker 6:          01:38:43       There you go. Um, you, you might think you're good. I mean, I've heard people say that they were good right from the very beginning, but they are either full of shit or they were stealing jokes. It just doesn't make sense that you were good right from the beginning unless you had some experience as something else before. One, one group of people that were actually pretty decent, not bad for beginners was a alcoholics anonymous people, because this is driving people in itunes. Fucking crazy. I guarantee you, you want to take a quick five minute break. You might keep going right. How long do these things keep going? We'll just pause this folks. We're going to pause this for a couple minutes and let this shit stop. Thank you. This ladies and gentlemen, we're very vulnerable folks technically.

Speaker 6:          01:39:46       Uh, but we were in the middle of talking about this shows off air. There it goes. Um, we were in the middle of talking about changing your life and changing, you know, changing your diet, changing your path into something that you love. That's something that we stress on this show, like, like as much as possible because it's something that someone doesn't tell you when you're growing up and the most formative period of your life. They don't say you. You're different than me. Everyone's different. You have to find what you're drawn to. Find what you love and then go chase. That. I love when I see is this mic on Brian? It's working because I don't hear the young people that like latch onto something that they love doing when they're, when they're young, you know, whether it's playing the guitar or whatever it is that they're just passionate about. And then they just become very self directed about it and I'm like so jealous. I wish I had when I was a kid. I wish I had that, you know, I'd never, I spent my whole life kind of doing what I was supposed to and didn't never really stopped to think like, well, what do I, what do I want or what makes me happy or what am I passionate about? It wasn't really, just wasn't really part of my equation, you know? And that just seems so wrong. So it's like,

Speaker 7:          01:40:54       yeah, it's terrible. And, and, and it, it, it almost like it doesn't even matter what it is, you know, everybody has something inside them that they probably, you know, love doing or could be passionate about or could be good at or whatever. And

Speaker 1:          01:41:07       for everyone, do you think there's some people

Speaker 7:          01:41:10       stickers? Not Listen, I think that not look, not everyone can be an nba basketball player or whatever. So not everyone is innately gifted, but I think everybody in signed the inside of themselves has something that makes them happy. And I think that if you pursue what makes you happy without getting so caught up in, how am I going to make money doing this or there's no career in it, whatever, and living a little bit more faith based with what you're doing and focusing more on the passion that you know, we'd probably be, we'd probably be better off. I think people would be happier if that was a priority.

Speaker 1:          01:41:43       There will also be cultural people already trying to borrow money. There'll be a lot more people. Well Hollywood's full of these kinds of people. Of course there'll be a lot more people that need a loan to try to get through this next thing that they're trying to fucking get launch. Kickstarter would have got it done in a long time ago. Yeah. King started changed the whole game of begging. Made it kind of cool. So you've figured out a way to put a name to it that makes it seem, oh, it's Kevin just kickstart and my business. Did you see, I just saw, I tweeted this yesterday, right?

Speaker 7:          01:42:13       That this, this company came up with this New Light Bulb that you can control your, your iphone app, you can, you can, you put all these light bulbs in your house and you can do all this crazy stuff with them. Like change all their colors. Yeah. Like that, like changed the cars, have them turn on, have them like, you know, on timers that go off and, and it was pretty cool. But they raised a ton of money on kickstarter.

Speaker 1:          01:42:35       No Shit. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. It's a brilliant idea. And you, you know, you, there's all sorts of different offers that companies give to people that you can actually become a part of. Like cocaine cowboys. I thin he do something like that where he. No, no, no, that wasn't, that was the union. The guys who did the union, his next film that he's doing, he, he got people to buy it in advance on kickstarter instead of just like asking for money. He said, listen, I'm giving you your, you'll get the first copies of this film. A successful product

Speaker 7:          01:43:05       ones are all, they're almost preorders. So there was a lot of money because you're going to actually get the product.

Speaker 1:          01:43:10       Yeah, I mean it sounds like it's such a. it's like the people that enjoyed the first film can actually fund and finance the second one. I mean, it's just, it's really cool, you know, if you look at it that way, it's really cool. I mean, we live in, we live in the most strange times. This is a really. Things like that, you know, are just like, you can do that. Yeah, you could do that and you can make a lot of money. Let's look at these fucking guys that made millions of dollars of this. Where did that go? By the way? That fucking was the quickest out fad that coney fad man, that's almost like an alien blip. They just tested us for retardation, like a Ph test from the, from the heavens in the same way that is accelerating.

Speaker 7:          01:43:52       Our attention spans are shrinking. You know? It's amazing. The rapidity with which stuff comes and goes now, like it's immediate like it be. It can be the biggest thing ever. And then it's immediately.

Speaker 1:          01:44:04       Could you imagine though Joseph, his email box? It's like nothing thin, thin, millions of emails stop. It was just nothing, nothing. He's not getting the emails today. Joseph Kony doesn't even get Nigerian scammer emails today. That was just viral marketing for Peter Pan on Blu Ray.

Speaker 7:          01:44:24       Yeah, totally. And yet at the same time you do this podcast and you hold people's attention for three hours a day. Man,

Speaker 1:          01:44:32       that's ridiculous. These people need to get outside, stop listening to this fucking show, go mow your lawn sign. But they're probably willing to ask a lot of people do it while they're working, which is cool as fuck because then they get to be a part of a conversation instead of just be sitting there, you know, screwing widgets together.

Speaker 7:          01:44:49       I got on my long training rides. I just stack it with podcasts because I cannot, I can't if I'm going out to ride my bike for a long day, eight hour training ride or something like that. I can't listen to music the whole time, you know? I'd go insane. So I, I, I'll listen to your podcast, a couple other podcasts and I just stopped and I just lose myself in the conversation. So for me it's like the longer the better man. I love it.

Speaker 1:          01:45:09       Yeah, we will. When we first started out, everybody was telling him we were crazy for doing an hour. Our Ari Shapiro was constantly go, go, go to a job. More than older people are not going to listen. I go, well, how about this? This don't listen to the rest. They just shut it off at any point in time. Like what fucking difference. Does that make sense? This is ridiculous. It's two hours, three hours. You don't have to listen. Like, do I get bummed out that a radio shows in four hours long? I only was in my car for an hour. No, you listen to whatever the fuck you want to listen to it. I think the key is just giving people content. Just keep keeping it coming. That's the most important thing is the momentum, keeping it coming and then you become a part of people's sort of daily routine. And when you become a part of people's daily routine, then you have an obligation and a responsibility to keep it coming, you know, because like now you're bombing a bunch of people out. It's not as simple as you put something out and they enjoy it. It's, you don't put it out and you bummed them out. Like, what the fuck? Fucking angry with you. Fucking jewelry expectation. Yeah. But it's, you're, you're, uh, you're making junkies and you, you have to feed those junkies. I mean, it seems like you're keeping the quality really high.

Speaker 7:          01:46:15       That David Seaman interview was amazing. I'd never, I'd never even heard of that guy. I was like, why is he having like a guy's running for Congress on his show? I just thought, and I listened to it. I was like, that is amazing. I immediately started following him. He's coming back, he's doing it to gas and dating guy. And it's a real interesting. I was thinking about it the other day because he's the first guy from like that generation to be in this sort of, you know, a political candidate. Yeah. And uh, and the generation gap is very palpable president, a very different place and his priorities

Speaker 1:          01:46:50       and perspectives and all of that or so just in the way he speaks or so different from what we're used to, you know what I mean? But he's smart. He's a smart kid. He's like 26 years old. It's beyond my shit he is. But it's beyond that too because, you know, he is interested in things and is talking about things that no one in, you know, the traditional political stratosphere want to get anywhere near, right wild. It could either he'll wind up being killed or he'll be the new king. Right? Either way, we got your backs on, uh, you know, I, I think it's, uh, it's, it's very important that the only way this future is going to be any brighter is if it's very important that we enlightened young people coming up to alternative paths of thinking. But you telling your story that you had gone down the exact correct path, you know, in, in some sort of a predetermined pattern to success, which would equal happiness supposedly for you.

Speaker 1:          01:47:44       And then reaching that point of success, you, you're not speculating ema, you were one of the rare people that actually made it to the end of the game and went, this is horseshit. Okay, let's get outta here and you can't get trapped here. Let's get the fuck out of here and try something different. It has to be done. That message when that message is in some kid's ear bud, when he's on the train headed to his job or or headed to school or whatever. That that message can resonate and change thousands of people's lives. I have had more fucking people come up to me in the past two years and say, your podcast changed my life then than any than any one thing that people have said to me other than fear is not a factor. They probably said that anything else, but that, that key, that fucking theme keeps happening.

Speaker 1:          01:48:34       And a lot of it is nutrition and a lot of it is exercise, but a lot of it also is just this understanding that you're not alone in thinking like that. That the standard path seems like shit. You're not alone in that, it's your, there's a lot of other people like us out there and we could all get pigeon holed into some ridiculous patterns that were created without individual personalities and unique traits and artistic intentions and qualities in mind of that stuff in mind. They were just, this is a plumber, this is a vacuum salesman. This is go down that path. So I'm, you'll be an electrician and you know, we're, we're disconnected from our own heartbeat. You know what I mean? It's like you could say, well, you know, most people are like, well, I don't even know what I like. You know, it's like we're not, we're disassociated from like a higher version of ourself.

Speaker 1:          01:49:21       More authentic version that wants to come out is locked down so deep that it's almost like the key is, you know, unfindable well, we've become a. We become a victim of our own culture, our own creation, the culture of our own creation as a culture of predetermined patterns and obligations and things that you just must do that a lot of them suck and we become a prisoner to that and this idea that if you do those things somehow or another, you will be happier. It's ludicrous. It's ridiculous. Yeah. But then there's also, you have to pay your fucking rent and you know you want to drive. Cars is expensive. Gas is expensive. Well, what are you gonna do you gotta you gotta get a job, son. It's finding the, the ability to pay yourself, feed yourself and on top of that still pursue a dream.

Speaker 1:          01:50:08       That's the hardest thing. You going to do it before you develop any fucking baggage. Live lean. Yeah. When you're young. That I could've done one thing when I was young. It was just the live as lean as possible and keep all those doors and options open so you don't get stuck in someplace you don't want to be and and, and make it more difficult for yourself to get out. Yeah, I got out, but I could have easily just not gotten out. I know a lot of people that didn't know a lot of people that are postman somewhere that really wanted to be a rockstar. You know, there's a lot, a lot of weirdness in this world, and then the one of the most depressing things to be around is someone who never went for it. The people that you know that never went for, that had an idea in their head, whatever it is, being an author, whatever it is, whatever it is, they just never changed.

Speaker 1:          01:50:51       I want to be a longshoreman and I want to be a fucking professional fisherman. I wanna. I want to fucking do what those crab guys doing. That crazy show guys go fishing for crap just to fucking know I'm alive. If you have that thought in your head and you don't do it, you're gonna. You're living like a bitch, man. You don't want to. You don't want to have those regrets, man. It's the saddest thing in the world, isn't it? Yeah. The, the, the feeling that you get when you're around someone who just stayed on the couch, just never pursued anything artistic. Anything physical, anything, anything. For me it always feels like one of the big things of, of happiness. It's like seeing improvement. Either seeing improvement in stuff that I'm working on, like comedy stuff or seeing improvement and um, my uh, my Jujitsu or seeing improvement in playing pool A, anything to me it's like if I don't see improvement and things then I get like, I get really bummed out.

Speaker 1:          01:51:47       Like I feel like I'm not doing anything. I feel lazy. I feel like I'm just getting by, you know, if I'm, if I go four or five days where I'm not, like at least actively working on improving some aspect of my life, I feel it's totally lazy. Right to it found out that Matt Danzig with them. Is that what is, why? Why is it, why would that make it haunted? Because his, his podcasts are haunted. Oh, his podcast. That's right. He said to podcasts that fucked up Ari [inaudible] podcast. He did this long podcast with Ari fear and uh, it got deleted and they couldn't return. We couldn't retrieve it. And then mine, which just crashed recently. So he made me podcast haunted. Is he going to come? He's coming back. Come coming tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow is going to be a crazy day, ladies and gentlemen. We have not just powerful Mac.

Speaker 1:          01:52:35       Dan's like, we have billy Corbin who's the director and producer of cocaine cowboys. He's coming in with Mad Flavor, Aka Joey Diaz. So Diaz and the director of cocaine cowboys and Joey's on the phone with me yesterday who's dropping knowledge. He's telling me he was warming up for this. He goes, let me tell you something, dog. I'm going to tell people shit I never told before. The tell people shit I never told before. Joe Rogan, I'm going to go back to my uncle. We can call them in Miami. Seventy years old, he'll tell you what the fuck happened. And he started going off and screaming at me on the phone after he screamed at me for leaving a message. I fucked up and left a voicemail message on his machine. If you leave a message as machine, he'll will go crazy and call you up and motherfuck you. Why? Why? He doesn't want to listen to messages.

Speaker 1:          01:53:18       Yeah, but he gets angry at you. So if you call his voicemail, it goes, what the fuck did I tell you know, messages do not leave a message on this fucking phone. So if you leave a message, he goes bananas. Even if you have like tell them to turn that, you can turn that off. Can you know these Joey fucking ape? He doesn't know what cash. Unless every job. That phone might as well be solid wood. He doesn't know what the fuck the buttons to shuts off when it runs out of batteries in his hands to somebody.

Speaker 1:          01:53:48       He's getting better at that though. He sent me text messages before and I stuck it in his face. I go, what the fuck is this? You sent me a text message for the longest time. Joe. He just had a pager when everyone had cell phones. He still had a pager. Yeah. He didn't have a cell phone until like the two thousands. I'm not bullshitting neither man. Joey Diaz had a. Did he have a pager when you met him? He might've had a pager when you met him. Yeah. Yeah. He kept a pager deep, deep into his history on a lot of people had given up the ghost in the pager. It's weird how these things just haven't been around that long and yet you can't even imagine not having them anymore. Do you remember the transitionary period where a lot of a lot of folks in the urban community had those little pagers that would send messages?

Speaker 1:          01:54:29       You could send like a little message to somebody meet me at the club. They would that the black folks were way ahead of the curve on that. They were way ahead of the curve. I never thought that would have caught on like, what are you guys doing? You're texting a white tank. I didn't even say texting wasn't even called texting. I was like, you're writing each other letters like, why do you, why are you doing that? And they were like, well, it gets loud in the club. I was like, Oh, it gets loud in the club. That makes sense. That's what started it all for real. That's it was too loud in the club. People fast for her to the. I found not only that, but a lot of times, uh, there's another thing that is a phenomena in the urban community that you'd like to talk on speakerphone.

Speaker 1:          01:55:05       No, I don't know what's up with that. I've talked about this on his podcast and people have accused me of being racist, touching that right after they accused me of being racist. I went to Roscoe's chicken and waffles and there's a dude standing right in front of the place talking on his phone like this. Oh Hell No. Oh Hell No. They'll do. Was talking loud. You could hear the other dude like silver loud and he's maybe he liked, heard the sheryl crow story and is worried about brain tumors, but I don't think so. I think there's something going on. Like they even had a commercial. Remember that commercial for boost mobile. They would have their cell phones like where you at? They would talk into it. They're not doing this. You're not treating it like a white person phone. Now they're holding it. You at that was the, that was the commercial they were doing urban style.

Speaker 1:          01:55:46       It's a weird thing. So I guess that didn't work. You know, cell phones and clubs. It's when you're on gone speakerphone all the time. It's fucking shit. It's fucking chaos. Right. So imagine, remember I used to have jokes in my act about text messages were stupid before, like in 2005, my showtime special. I totally marked text messaging like it takes you four presses to get an ass. I was like, there was before anybody had keyboards. Yeah. People would like, they were starting out with that crazy shit. We would have to press four times to get in that ladder. Right? Yeah. That was ridiculous. You remember that were dinosaurs. I remember when the texting plans were like 25 texts per month. 50 texts per month. Yeah. If you've got a girlfriend, you go through the day. No girls love texting. People are dying and crashing their cars because they just can't keep their fingers off it.

Speaker 1:          01:56:37       Oh yeah. It's real issue. It's a real issue. They say it's one of the worst distractions ever that you literally cannot focus on your phone. Like it's like zooming in on something like that and intently is like, it's so. It's so non peripheral. You don't see anything peripheral. You've completely concentrated on that thing. Right. Some lady almost ran into me at the mall the other day. She was on her phone and she was doing this and she looked up and I was like, right in the crosswalk. People are fucking nuts man. They're nuts and we've created this weird culture again that were prisoner to. And one of the prisons is technology. I mean we, we benefit from it, no question about it, but we are also locked into this really weird symbiotic relationship with it. Like I am. I do not leave my house without my phone man.

Speaker 1:          01:57:23       If I, I, if I don't have my phone on me, I feel weird. That is weird. Family. Where's my fucking phone? And I'll panic. Even though it's like all you have to do is you buy a new phone and you stick it in your computer, all your contacts. It takes you. I mean if you lost your phone, it's not the most, but the other people, I'm alone, I'm out there on my own with no, no tether. It's like they were afraid to be in a fucking town without a cell phone. I mean, I feel bizarre if I leave, if I, if I'm in a town like say in a. it's like a place where you could walk around and I leave my phone in my hotel room and then I'll go downstairs and I'll just walk to a restaurant, sit down. I feel fucking strange.

Speaker 1:          01:58:04       Like I feel like I can't talk to anybody right now. It's worth it. And it gets even crazier with all the social media. Like you have this compulsion to check twitter and see what certain people are saying that you don't even. These are people you don't even know. Well, some people have it hooked up to their phone where they get a text message every time someone tweets any sort of a mention of their name, you know? That's, that's insane. Don Benson has that. So does dot Merera. I tweeted a instagram the other day, a picture of Don Merera, the sexy pool boobs was shooting pool and uh, it showed up on his phone. I'm like, silly bitch. Turn that shit off. I'll have people just read. I think I already have do that now your phone is going to blow up tomorrow. This is insane. It just scrolls like crazy.

Speaker 1:          01:58:51       Yeah, you can't read all that stuff. I read as much as I can, but the problem is some people think I read it all and they're like, did you respond to my [inaudible]? Get Mad at you responding to tweet and like, doors tomorrow. What tweet do you want me to really go into your thing? And there's a lot of people here. Do just, you had the chance to say it again right there. And he didn't. You just said bullet foods do not respond. Foods dealt with. Oh, the negative approach. I get the guilt move. Always, always good. I was here in Howard stern talking about twitter, about how many people are nasty to him on twitter and how evil they are. Um, I don't get that. I really don't get this pretty overwhelmingly positive compared to other platforms that I've found. I get overwhelmingly positive. I mean there's always a few cons, but it's so easy to block them, my wife and bring them on it.

Speaker 1:          01:59:37       And it's rare. It's really rare and I think a lot of people on twitter, like you look at their names, it's like that's their real name. It's, it's more than a St message boards, message boards. I've always felt like we have a message board on Joe Rogan Dot Net and I've always felt like prior to the problem is the anonymity that it provides. In a way. It's good because people can talk about things, especially like people that have sensitive jobs and people that are at work, they can get away with talking about things and there's no way to google them and data reference their name, but in a way it's bad because people say shit without any reason. They don't worry about the, uh, the social repercussions of looking at a person's eye and calling them a country Douche bag, you know? And then they're like, what the fuck man, you didn't like that.

Speaker 1:          02:00:20       That negativity is gone. So it's just these verbal barb's. I think with twitter, like a lot of times people have their photo that's there. It's not everybody but a good percentage. Like I'm looking at my, my twitter feed. Most of these are people's names. Real people. Yeah. There's a few that aren't because a few like weird names or you know, it's like maybe one of them's Divo bitch, you're not Divo, you know, and it's depo is me. Is his twitter name to Divo son. I mean you might like diva but you're not divo and who are you really? It's probably the name is Mike Callahan or whatever the fuck his name is. When I think the more we have that, the more we have like a sort of a transparency about who I think people are less likely to just lash out and have it become super.

Speaker 7:          02:01:05       Yeah, that's true. I mean I think like a couple of weeks ago when you had, you retreated like a video I made of a Kale shake or something like that. We had a back and forth over Kale, vitamix or something like that, so. So you retweeted this stupid little video that I made of just me making a a drink after a run and I got slammed with desk squad, army full of fact. Just like if I saw that guy on the street I would, I would stab him in the face and like, what is it? Like the most benign thing my face for me, it's not. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, really. I mean there were some that were fine too, but I was like suddenly out of the blue, like all these comments popped up, so it's clearly as a result of you having this huge following or whatever.

Speaker 1:          02:01:50       Have you though for your dietary choice are very threatened by the Kale Joe? Yeah. That's what they don't know what to do with me because I enjoy the Kale. I love the Kale. I'm, I'm, I'm a big fan of, of pure vegetable, just meals. It's just food is just food, but the people need to be on a fucking team. Okay. It's now during the desk about army and if, if they feel like they're being attacked by vegetarian, they'll fucking throw out all their vegetables. I don't know why, you know, we all just get along to quote Rodney King for drown on PCP and a swimming pool. It's a, it seems to me that, uh, the real problem is annoying people. It's not vegetarian meat eaters. It's not. The real problem is annoying people or people that are ignoring that. That's the issue. It's not your different ideology or different desire.

Speaker 1:          02:02:40       I know people that legitimately really love classical music and they can't wait to get home to put on headphones and sit there in front of some shit. That to me, which is a drive me out of my head. I can listen to classical music for a couple minutes and then I go, you know what I can be listening to right now led Zepplin. Why am I listening to this stupid shit when I can hear a whole lot of love? You know, to me, I don't like classical music, but it doesn't mean that it's not awesome to you. You know? It's the same thing with dietary choices. Same thing that the way you dress. I've had it, man. He just enjoy your life. We've lost a little bit of a tolerance,

Speaker 7:          02:03:17       dense intolerance, you know, it's one of the dumbest things to lose its, you know that diversity is a good thing. Huge. So why? You know, why are you taking a dump on somebody else's preference that has nothing to do with you?

Speaker 1:          02:03:30       Yeah, and by the way, tolerance and acceptance of people benefits your life very much directly. It benefits the way you feel. The more tolerant and accepting you are a people and the more you don't know, you're just cool with people. The more positive interactions you'll have, the more positive interactions you'll have, the better your your, your feeling in life will be. And that's like a real direct thing for sure. And that the, the negative shit that a lot of people project at people for no reason. What it really is, is your own shortcomings and magnified through your personality traits. It has nothing to do with the person that's being projected. A very rarely does. Very rarely does he just choose them to for your eye or the target of your bullshit, but the reality is you wouldn't have that bullshit. Like, I try to explain this to a guy once who was a heckler.

Speaker 1:          02:04:18       I know that. I was like, you're, you have to be a loser. There's no way it can be a winner. You know what I'm saying? Like, do you really think that Michael Jordan would go to a comedy club and haggle? Do you think anybody who'd be really good at anything would interrupt a performance and just try to interject now you have no appreciation for things that are good. Like, this is a, this is, uh, a dire moment for you where you need to realize this. Anybody who would try to fuck up someone's time, if you're trying to fuck up their enjoyment, you're trying to, you've got something wrong with you, man. You got something wrong with you 100 percent. There's no way around it. You have to be fucked up. And if you weren't that way, you would be happier. Believe it or not, like that energy that you put out is palpable.

Speaker 1:          02:05:02       The energy that you put out being an asshole is real and it does come. It does flavor. Your light comes back. Yeah. And for you, you feel that's a dietary as well, right? So what do you mean? You mean? I mean as far as like putting out energy mean you're taking in vegetables, you're almost like a pure, you know, that that existence of, of, of only eating vegetables and not, not being connected to animal farming or any of that horrible shit that you see and we're still all connected to it, you know, but just by virtue of living here and all the other things that we have to do, do you drive a prius posts? I know if you drive a van, like a fucking muscle cars, we're very proud of you. I wish I could fucking. What are we? What have we been talking about these past two hours?

Speaker 1:          02:05:51       I really wish you really wish. I know it needed to get a kickstart, tapped out and to get a CTO. A muscle car. Yeah. No, there's a certain, um, I guess it's, you know, it sounds weird to say it, but there's definitely like a feeling of like greater harmony. The environment makes sense. It sounds really stupid. It doesn't, you know, I'm, I'm going hunting for the first time in October with Steve Rinella. He's a guy who had a TV show on the travel channel called the wow within and now he's got a new one called the mediator and his show is essentially his original show was all about, um, you know, like sort of like living off the land and he would do a lot of things that were like really similar to what like, um, uh, people had to do in the 18 hundreds, like you would kill a water buffalo with a musket and shit like that.

Speaker 1:          02:06:44       And his new show. It's all about, uh, what you call like fair chase hunting. And one of the things that I've been, I'm really paying attention to a lot lately is the idea of a hunter gatherer lifestyle being I'm actually, uh, uh, like a physically benefiting experience for people and that there are certain amounts of, there's a certain system or a reward system that's a in our bodies that is a satisfied with growing your own food. There's a certain reward system that's satisfied with the hunting and fishing and that our bodies are essentially the same as the bodies of people that lived, you know, 20,000 years ago. There's very little genetic change and that we still have these reward systems, these primal feelings

Speaker 5:          02:07:36       of satisfaction that are built into our very being as a human being in order to, to, to motivate us to do the correct things to survive and to carry on. And I'm at, me personally as a, as a person who is a mediator. I've never killed an animal ever, you know, except accidentally like car accidents and shit. You know, I've never like went hunting. I've never actually, I shot a squirrel with a bb when I was little. I think I might've killed that little guy. Sorry, sorry. Squirrel. But what I'm saying is I've never hunted anything and killed what I, you know what I, and I don't know how I'm going to feel, you know, I might, I might shoot a deer and be like, okay, fuck this. I need to get some beats because I'm done with this. Or I might go, well, you know what, if I didn't shoot that thing, it would probably get hit by a car or it would get killed by a coyote or you know, it's going to die.

Speaker 5:          02:08:24       It's not going to live forever and become magical. What's the term you used? Fair, fair chase, fair chase. What does that mean? That means you don't set a bait. You don't put out like bait and leave food and very certain certain spot over and over again so that you know, the animals will be there. In Texas, they actually have feeders where they have these giant drums that dispense food on a timer. So in the morning, the deer just start walking in because they know they're going to get fed because most of the time you're not hunting there because they have giant, what they call high fence ranches and these high fence ranches, it's essentially like they've converted. They've done like a mixture of farming and hunting because it's like, it's really like farming. I mean you're just harvesting, meet the animal. You're in a blind.

Speaker 5:          02:09:07       The animal walks out the spot. He goes to every day, goes to get his food above bloomy. His heart blows out of his chest and he's done. He lives there with his legs kick in. You turned them into meat and you cook them up. And that's, that's a way more humane solution for sure, than a factory farm. No doubt about it. And I'm not criticizing it, but that's not what Steven Rinella does with Steven Nella does he, he believes that the real satisfaction comes from like stocking the game, finding the right place to be when you're, you know, upwind or downwind and getting away from the area where the animal can detect you and you know, and stalking and hunting an animal the way people did thousands and thousands

Speaker 7:          02:09:52       years ago. Did you read, did you read that book? Born to run? No. So what is it? It's called born to run by Christopher mcdougall. It's an amazing book. He's a contributing writer to I think men's journal or outside magazine or something like that was a hugely successful book that, that uh, let me shut this door. There's people in our.

Speaker 8:          02:10:15       Oh, sorry.

Speaker 7:          02:10:22       Anyway, this guy went down to, uh, the Copper Canyon in Mexico, which is this really remote area and I think it's in the northern part of Mexico, but below that, the Arizona board or somewhere

Speaker 6:          02:10:34       and it's like a land lost in time, like it's impossible to get in and out of there. And there are these tribes in there called the Tarahumara and uh, they're like this, uh, this uh, population of endurance runners that essentially run barefoot with these little, they have little sandals or whatever, and, and they'll run incredible distances and, and in the course of the book he gets to, he gets to sort of commune with these people and it goes into kind of like ultra running and the barefoot running movement and the history of how they're running. You know, how Nike sort of created this business around running shoes. And it's fascinating. But I'm, one of the things he talks about is this theory that man evolved as a persistent hunter as and that and that we were, we evolved to be endurance runners because we would go to chase down these animals that were better, faster than us that have much more fast twitch muscle.

Speaker 6:          02:11:28       We could, you can't run as fast as them, but eventually they just, they get exhausted. They can't run days at a time. And these humans would just patiently like sort of track them and just follow them and follow them and follow them. And then just wait until the animal, like keeled over out of dehydration, exhaustion and that's how they would conquer the animal and bring it back to, to eat people still do it today. Right. And so, so the idea that we were sort of bred to be endurance athletes or runners out as a result of this, you know, thousands of however many thousands of years of doing this. That's fascinating. So, uh, did they, um, did they use weapons when they first did it or did they just strangle them and hit them with a rock once they. Yeah, I think it was sort of like, it was a really.

Speaker 6:          02:12:09       They, these animals, they'd be so exhausted that there wasn't much need to do anything severe. Like they'd kill over. They get him with a rock or if we really knew for sure. It's like really funny when you have like things like that. Like how did we develop disability to do this? When did they figure out about persistence, hunting and running. It will be really amazing if we could know for sure. It's so funny about how much of like the past of human beings is like this weird ideas where you're trying to like piece it together and like formulate a vision of how things went down. It's really hard to just extrapolate that across, you know, in, and apply it to a certain nutritional way of living. Like, you know, with Paleo, it's sort of all right, well Paleolithic, but you know, how many, how many thousands of years ago are we talking about are millions of years ago for a million, 40 million, 40,000, right?

Speaker 6:          02:12:59       What is it, where your body, what part of the world and you know, certain people's evolved to had an approach to food because of what was available to them in a different way than somewhere else. And, and piecing that puzzle together is. I mean it's tricky and they've just started finding some really interesting things that show that you might be dealing with far, far older societies than we think in the first place I could. They were always pushing the dates back of like when people figured certain things out, like there's some cave art that they've discovered

Speaker 1:          02:13:32       now that they're, they're looking at like 40,000 plus years ago and you're like, okay, this is, this is just throws things way back, you know, there's, it's a, it's really a fascinating thing trying to piece together what human beings, how we become what we are right now and what led us to this point, this, this apex of 2012. The whole process of hunter and gathering of. I mean that's where people, a lot of people say the thing went wrong and we developed agriculture. That's one of the thing went wrong. Then we figured out how to have a surplus because then we had to defend that surplus and then we had this big fucking forte, but that was also sort of the birth of civilization and the and the intellect to where it went wrong. What went wrong? Man, we fucked it up, fucked it up. I thinking we could have been having a great time back in the spending a week chasing down one because yeah, the video where the guy does it, he does it in Africa.

Speaker 1:          02:14:24       The video that I saw and he's fucking persistent. Haunting, so he just lit. How long did it take him forever. It was a long day. He just kept chasing this fucking thing and at the end he was so tired and the they said that the guy doesn't even eat it. The Guy who kills the animal didn't even eat it out of respect for the process or you know, the connection that he has to the animal, which we. That's the weirdest thing. And I think one of the weirdest things about human beings is our lack of connection to what food is. You know, people that are, they get upset if you want to go hunting yet they're wearing leather. People that eat meat but would never kill it themselves. It's like we've really like figured out a way to completely disconnect people from the process, which I just can't.

Speaker 1:          02:15:10       I can't see that being natural while still living with this ignorance denial. And disassociation are very powerful and they're, they're powerful defense mechanisms for just getting through the day. Yeah. How do you fix that? How do you, how do you, uh, is there a way to, to inspire, inspire in the classroom some, a different way of looking at things so that people don't grow up to be the same fucked up pattern monkeys over and over and over again? Well, it's weird because in some ways I feel like it's changing and it's getting better and in an otherwise I feel like it's moving backwards. I mean, when you have the Internet and you have all this unbelievable amount of information available to you where you can find out anything in an instant and you can get to the bottom of what's happening in subject x, uh, that's like a good thing, right?

Speaker 1:          02:16:02       Like, it pulls the covers on a lot of people and a lot of organizations and what have you. And yet at the same time you have traditional media that's becoming even more and more entrenched. You know, it's sort of like remember when we were kids it was like the local news and that was how you got your news, you're going to believe what they tell you and and now it's with the Internet, it's, you watch the news and you're like, well I don't know if that's the whole story and saying this and it's easy to go online and, and you know, extrapolate upon that

Speaker 4:          02:16:30       and find out more and figure out why they're not telling you this part of the story or that. Whereas he didn't have that before. Yet at the same time I feel like we're more and more entrenched in this fear based culture in which there's a clamp down and so where does that lead us? Like is it ultimately, does that like implode on itself or like where, what, how does it all play out? How does that all play out? That's the question,

Speaker 5:          02:16:51       right? I mean it is playing out and I think, believe it or not, without sounding grandiose, conversations like this are a part of the decision making process. It's a part of how society looks at it, about, about how we approach it, because there's a lot of people that are like you that realizes this is, that this is not natural, this is, is this whole thing is bizarre and it can go wrong. It can all go wrong. The whole fear based culture that you brought up, the idea of the, the, the, the lack of civil liberties, uh, the lack of privacy that we really have in this country now, the laws that are being passed over and over again that allow people to look into your stuff because you might be a terrorist. I mean, how did we not learn from the mccarthy era? How did we not learn that the way is not to crack district.

Speaker 4:          02:17:37       We're distracted by our iphones and the Kardashians and you know what I mean, like people are, there is a malays know and, and technology, you know, plays a huge part in that, in distracting us. Like again, it's like the Matrix, you know, it's crazy. Well, I said it's weird because you used to be, if you were to talk about this kind of stuff or propose any of these ideas, you were just a crazy conspiracy theorist, but now it's, there's too many crazy things going on too to not realize that there's a lot of truth to all this stuff. I mean everything from like the the label on the front of a food product that you buy that's telling you this and that when you turn around and look at the nutrition facts panel and you realize it's nonsense. Or how about genetically modified foods now? That's insane. Have you had looked at. I mean

Speaker 5:          02:18:27       it, you know, so I mean the people that are making them. Have you looked down the road 20 years and found out what people are gonna? What's gonna happen when peanut elite these, what's going to alter the environment like your past. You're developing a fucking thing that has a natural pessimist

Speaker 4:          02:18:40       and humans are not. We're not wired to be forward thinking or to consider the long play. You know, we're a bunch of scary creeps button pushing these monkeys banks. Until recently somebody said, I can't remember where I heard this, but if all the insects died that uh, if all, if all the insects died, the, uh, the whole earth would be dead in 50 years or something like that. But if all the humans died, the earth would be, we'd repair itself. I believe that.

Speaker 5:          02:19:11       Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, the, just the massive ants and the jobs that ants do. People don't understand, know gazelles have to be there. Then that means you have to have cheetahs. You have to have something that cleans things up. And you know, ants play a very important role in the of shit that

Speaker 1:          02:19:28       we leave around. I mean, aunts have, you know, when you leave something on the table and the ants swarm it, that's they're supposed to do. They find shit on the ground. They find dead bodies. They find everything. They and they go to work. What about all of this craziness with the bees? It's weird. It's very weird. It's weird because there's a bunch of different theories and no one seems to know what the fuck it is. Some people say it's cell phones and that the extra cell phone signals are fucking with the bees and I've talked to experts and they say there's no doubt about it, that it has an effect on the bees, that the frequency that they operate in, that they can pick up bands of radio waves and things because their antenna, I mean they communicate with each other. We had a thing on fear factor once where we cover these people and bees and uh, when we were.

Speaker 1:          02:20:10       We were out in this place called Sable ranch and it's a huge ranch and natural hive of bees was at the ranch. So there they have all these bees on these people. These local bees came flying in like a giant group of them and they all made a huge cloud in the sky. And the a b handlers like, all right everybody, let's back away from this. Everybody get way back. They've got to work this out. So they worked it out. They communicated with each other and they found out who was who. And then the local bees like separated and they let the law, the bees that were this guy's honeybees, the train be, they're never trained, you know, the contained bs, I guess you would say let them go about their business. But it's like there was some communication going on and this guy said they had to work this out.

Speaker 1:          02:20:54       Like that's how he described it. And I go, what do you mean work it out? Like, what's, what's going on here? That's incredible. It was amazing because I, I, and what's amazing is that nobody seemed to give a fuck. You know, I, I was, I was baffled by like, are they up there talking? Are they talking right now? His bees were like, they all got together and I was amazed that this guy knew what was going on, that he knew that some local bees came in and he knew that that's all they had to do. They just had to get together and talk. And I'm like, how often does this happen? And he's like, it happens all the time that bees find out there's some other bs in their area. Like what the fuck are they finding out? I guess they send scouts, maybe they have one.

Speaker 1:          02:21:33       God's like, dude, there's a fucking hundred guys I never met before. How does this come out? And then come back and communicate that information to get everyone else to come out. Yeah. They say they do it through pheromones. You know, there, there's a lot of um, there's a lot of confusion about how they do it and what, what level of communication they actually have because they're so alien to us. I mean, they're, what they fascinating because it using our. One of our cell phone networks are part of this texting each other. I think they're just getting jacked. I think our cell phone networks like Jackhammers, but they don't, they can't find them either. You know, it's sort of like, well where are they? Where are they going? Well, they're not disappearing. They're dying. They're not breathing properly. Right? Yeah. It's crazy. And if we don't have bees, especially, honeybees were really fucked.

Speaker 1:          02:22:18       We need to come up with little robot bees that do a better job than B's. Little tiny microscopic robots that go out and pollinate. Shit. What is that? So hard? Yeah. Why do you have to have drones to kill people in Pakistan? But some drone bees so complex. If we have this bad ass be that's less complex and we control that little motherfucker. All it has to do is pollinate. I don't, you know, we can make our own hunting. I'm pretty sure we don't need base for that. Right? Can we figure out a way to make artificial honey? Probably not like they say that local honey, I'm from the area that you are, contains a of protection from the local ailments. Like say if there's local colds going on that it would be a good anti a antioxidant or what not not sure, but a good prevention from a, from catching local colds that a raw honey raw food really is where it's at. I mean, the real problem with milk for a lot of people is the um, the uh, the fact that you have to get it homogenize it. Pasteurize. If you get raw milk, it's way easier to digest. I don't necessarily know. I mean crazy. Well, I mean that whole thing. Yeah,

Speaker 7:          02:23:27       went down in Santa Monica. I think they're still in. What happened there was that there's a Santa Monica co-op or there some place in Santa Monica that was selling raw milk and a government like clamped down ahead. They like rated the place. I guess they'd given him a couple of warnings or maybe a donor like a mellow rate earlier and they kept, they kept trying to sell raw milk and then they finally went in guns blazing and shut them down. And there's always lawsuits now.

Speaker 1:          02:23:52       Yeah. They get the kind of sound like a million dollars bail or something crazy. Right, right. Well, what I have found out those, that raw milk is still legal. You can buy raw milk in this country, in this state. What did they, what did the guy do that with some regulatory issue, but sprouts in woodland hills has raw milk. They do, yeah. There's certain companies that in California sell raw milk.

Speaker 8:          02:24:15       Huh?

Speaker 1:          02:24:16       Yeah. Hold on. There's a, there's a, a, a, a, a famous, a raw milk company. And they, um, they, uh, they list where they sell it and they sell it at quite a few different places. Yeah. And we need to find the law on that because a raw milk.

Speaker 1:          02:24:39       I was under the mistaken impression that it was illegal because they pulled it out of whole foods foods. Raw Milk Los Angeles. Yeah. Let me see here. Yeah. But yeah, you can get. There's websites that are out there. What happened with that guy in Santa Monica? Because that was a gnarly situation. There's actually a raw milk, a store in Hollywood shout out to the old PDC hub, a raw milk store where you can buy raw milk and La. Yeah. Oops. Every now and then it sickens 10 people raw milk seconds. Ten people. Well, you know, thinking about raw milk is, it's like thing you're not supposed to be able to take milk and it sits on the couch or it sits rather, uh, in frigerator for a fucking week

Speaker 5:          02:25:24       and a half. And it's still good. That's crazy. Like that doesn't exist in nature. You can't take a steak and leave it in your fridge for a week. And a half, it looks like shit smells terrible because it's rotting, you know, and that's that that's going on with your milk to like at a certain point in time, like it's not going to be good anymore. You can't just put that homogenized, pasteurized shit. You just leave it in there. Weeks later stays good for you, open the top, weeks later you smell it. It's fine. That's crazy. I mean we, we've figured out a way to preserve things and make them all fucking funky. Did you have a Milkman when you were a kid? For a very brief point in time? I think my grandparents did because I do remember it, but it was, I don't think it was our house, but I do remember it. So I think it was my grandparents, but they had like a glass bottle with a foil top.

Speaker 7:          02:26:08       Yeah, exactly. Does mean, does that even exist anymore?

Speaker 5:          02:26:12       Somebody must offer that service. There's always these, like small companies, like grass fed is a big issue now with a lot of people. Um, specifically before we end this, I wanted to find out what is wrong with what the Paleo guys are saying and in your opinion, and like what, uh, what, what is faulty about their thinking,

Speaker 7:          02:26:32       what's faulty about they're thinking? Well, I think that that was problematic for me is this idea that it's this low, it's a low carb focus, right? It's low carb, high protein.

Speaker 5:          02:26:46       I think the focus is to eat like people eight thousands of years ago because that's how our body set up essentially like just vegetables,

Speaker 7:          02:26:54       the, uh, the, um, the research on how we ate thousands of years ago. Again, going back to what we talked about before, like, you know, there's, there's holes in that. So is there. Yeah, I mean we were hunters and gatherers, so there's a gathering part to that that gets overlooked in favor of the hunting part because that's a little sexier, I guess it is. But, uh, the idea of eating, you know, such a, such a low, like the no grain thing, the no fruit thing, all of that to, you know, focus on the meat, the saturated fat, the high protein, low carbohydrate is, is sort of in a certain respect is kind of an extrapolation of the Atkins Diet, you know, which is where this whole idea of, you know, this way of eating, which helps you lose weight relatively quickly, but also, um, can cause you problems with ketosis and eating too much protein which can, which can be damaging.

Speaker 7:          02:27:51       And so as a, you know, as an athlete, like I don't know how you're supposed to function without eating more carbohydrates. Like I couldn't do it without eating plenty of grains and fruit and that's just speaking from my own experience. But, um, my biggest thing is again, going back to what we talked about earlier, which is, which is this incredible incidents of western disease that we have to deal with here. You know, and when people are dropping dead of heart attacks left and right, and it's a gigantic problem. And, you know, diabetes, obesity, Alzheimer's, all these kinds of things, and there are studies that link animal products to the incidence of these diseases and that to me it makes more sense to eat, plant based and the studies show that when you eat a plant based diet, you can actually prevent yourself from contracting these essentially foodborne illnesses.

Speaker 7:          02:28:47       So that's. So it's not that I'm, I have some huge beef with Paleo per se. Um, I'm just more plant based Diet and again, I think there's, you know, a lot of cool stuff about Paleo. Like I love the evolutionary fitness aspect of it, you know, those sort of returned to moving your body and the kettle balls and the focus on core strength and how that birth cross fit and all of that. I think that's fantastic. Yeah, there's, you know, and it's certainly, you know, I think that a plant based diet and the Paleo Diet have a lot more in common than they do differences when compared to a standard American diet for sure. You know, standard American diet isn't even really a diet, it's just a filler. I know, but the problem is that if you ask people, 90 percent of people, if you ask them will tell you they eat healthy, when in fact it's probably like one percent of people that actually eat healthy or everybody wouldn't be keeling over with heart disease.

Speaker 7:          02:29:44       You know, and I think that heart disease starts when you're a teenager, you know, you start clogging those arteries at a very young age and you hear these stories of like, oh, I had no symptoms and then I killed over from a heart attack. Well, you've been working on that disease for 20 years, you know what I mean? And it's a real problem and it just doesn't need to exist. And so from everything I've read, the best way to prevent that is to cut the meat and dairy out of your diet. You know, I don't know how to. I don't know how to say it any other way. So why did the Paleo guys deny this? Paleo guys seem to point to the fact that there's an actual benefit to eating meat and that a vegetarian diet or Vegan Diet does not have all the nutritional benefits of a mediating protein eating diets.

Speaker 7:          02:30:27       I don't know why they say that because I don't. I don't believe that to be true. I mean, if they're saying that you can't, you can't, you can't thrive on a Vegan Diet. I mean it's just, it's an, it's an ill founded. It's an ill founded statement. I mean, I think even rob himself said, you know, lots of guys do well on a Vegan diet and he said he tried a Vegan diet and it ultimately he lost a ton of weight. I think he said he lost a whole bunch of weight or whatever and I can't remember why he said he decided to not do it anymore, whether he wasn't feeling good or whatever, but I'd be interested in knowing what it was that he was eating because I think most people that say, yeah, I tried a Vegan Diet didn't work for me. I felt lousy.

Speaker 7:          02:31:02       Well, I don't know what that means. You know, I mean you can be a junk food vegan and eat terribly and being the nutrient deprived for sure. You know, so it's not about, it's not about eating tofurkey and fake chicken fingers, it's about the whole foods, you know, the whole food, plant based Diet and that means you know, similar to Paleo, getting rid of the oils, you know, or, or you know, reducing the oil as well, not the saturated fats, but the other fats, I mean this most, you know, most of the plant based oils aren't, don't have saturated. I mean coconut oil does or a couple that do,

Speaker 6:          02:31:36       but you know, it's actually still. Yeah, exactly. But, but those are those also contribute to arthrosclerosis and stuff like that? No, just oils and oils in general. Coconut oil can continue if you are. Yeah, I mean there is a certain contingent of the whole food plant based Diet movement that basically say no oils, no oils in your diet. What? But I thought that essential oils are essential for brain function and

Speaker 7:          02:32:03       for there are these are, these are the people that are. This is like the Dr Esselstyn. The t Colin Campbell, like the cores or whatever, and they're speaking to people that have suffered heart attacks or you know, are in seriously poor health and are in a position where they really need to reverse the condition that they're in. So it's an, it's an extreme situation. Personally, I, you know, I eat oils, I put coconut oil on my morning, vitamax I like olive oil on my dressing or whatever. I try not to Overdo it, I judicious about it, but I feel like I need that in order to get the calories that I need to train the way that I want to train.

Speaker 6:          02:32:38       Yeah. Because there's a lot of people that believe that fats and oils are, they're critical to, uh, to brain function.

Speaker 7:          02:32:45       Not only that, there are a very efficient source of energy, especially in endurance sports because, you know, every gram of fat has much more whatever it is, kilojoules of energy than, than a gram of sugar or carbohydrate really.

Speaker 6:          02:33:01       So, um, you're better when it's metabolized in a different way,

Speaker 7:          02:33:03       way, you know what I mean? Like it in an endurance sports, you're always looking at, you know, sort of what, what zone of exertion your training in and that can be calculated by heart rate, like wearing a heart rate monitor or on a bike by a power meter that measures the amount of watts, like the force that you're exerting on the pedal. And you can be very specific about what your exertion level is and how that correlates to which energy mechanism you're using. And so when you're an endurance athlete, you want to really emphasize the fat burning zone, which is like the lower intensity of the aerobic anaerobic zone of energy, which is kind of like just below that, that level where you feel like you're, you're getting a little too winded, you know what I mean? And that's, it's a certain level of exertion in which you're metabolizing fat for energy as opposed to glycogen. And if you're metabolizing fat for energy, you can essentially go all day. The more you train that, that mechanism, it gets more and more efficient. Um, but if you are, if your exertion ramps up and you're burning glycogen, all of a sudden for energy, you're only going to be able to go about 90 minutes before you run out of fuel. You can deplete your glycogen stores. You're Never gonna Deplete your fat stores. There's just too much of it.

Speaker 6:          02:34:15       So you can train your body to burn off fat.

Speaker 7:          02:34:18       Instead of training your body to burn off carbohydrates, you're training, you're training your body to utilize fat for energy. So it's not like you're, you're, you know, there's a difference between dietary fat, subcutaneous fat, but we all have, no matter how lean you are and how matter, you know, I've gotten very, very lean. You still have a lot of fat in your system that's available as an energy resource. And how do you train your body to do that by, by being very specific about the training zones and the exertion levels that you're, that you're, uh, that you're, that you're doing, whether it's running, swimming or biking. So for example, cycling is like a perfect machine for, for the human because you can rig it all up to a computer and you can be very, very specific about what your output is. You have a heart rate monitor, you have the bikes these days, have a computer on it, right?

Speaker 7:          02:35:08       So you have your power meter which registers the force you're exerting on the pedals and watts. And then you can extrapolate that out after a ride, what your average watts are for that ride. And then you balance that against what your heart rate was at that particular watts, what the grade, you know, how much elevation gain you have, what the exterior temperature is. And you can create these insane graphs and look at it and like make judgment calls about where your fitness is, where your weaknesses are, and adjust your training program accordingly. And so when you're training for endurance or ultra endurance, again, it goes back to really emphasizing that fat burning zone, that aerobic zone, because because the more efficient you can be at that, you can, you can, um, you can improve your speed without doing that much speed work. I'm not, I'm not saying this very articulately, but for.

Speaker 7:          02:35:57       I'll give you an example. When I first started doing this endurance stuff out and wanted to stay in my zone two, which is the aerobics, so I would have to keep my heart rate when I was running below about 1:45. Initially when I first started running, I couldn't, uh, if I ran faster than like a nine or 9:30 pace, my ra would go over 1:45. And when it went over 1:45, I knew I was no longer in the fat burning zone that I was getting into the glycogen burning zone. But by staying in that specific heart rate region, over time, my pace increased without my heart rate going up, which, which is telling, which is telling me that I'm becoming a more efficient athlete at a certain level of exertion. My body is becoming faster and more efficient. So by training less hard, less less physical exertion, you actually improve your boundaries in a certain respect.

Speaker 7:          02:36:53       Yeah, I mean it was explained to me initially like if you want to go fast first you're going to have to go slow and build the, build the foundation of this machine from the ground up. And that doesn't mean there isn't a time and place for speed work and you know, super exertion work at a, at a higher intensity zone. But, but the key to success in endurance sports is really emphasizing that, that aerobics on training and education efficiency more efficient. And so for example, when I first started doing this training and I'd go out for these crazy long training sessions, I come back, I was starving, I'd be eating, you know, I just couldn't eat enough food. Now the toll that it, the tax on my body for doing a similar workout like four or five years later is de minimus compared to what it was before. So actually my appetite has gone down even though the training has been the same, if not more difficult. So. So the body adapts in other words.

Speaker 5:          02:37:50       Wow. That is fascinating stuff. So, um, how often are you wearing a heart monitor while you're training while you're exercising? Always. Always because see, I never did. I always buy them and I just fucking leave them, sit there and I just work out, work out hard and then I'm done.

Speaker 7:          02:38:05       Well and you know, coming from swimming and what it was like in the eighties, you know, it was always, you know, a go hard or go home and no pain, no gain. It's like if I had an hour to work out and I was going to go for a run, just run as hard as I can, you know, as fast as I can in that given our. And that's the best workout then I'm going to get. And actually, you know, the truth couldn't be more different. So if you want to get better, and that's the problem with a lot of sort of amateur athletes that want to do marathons or 10 k's or, or even like shorter distance triathlons by training, that way of just kind of using the time allotted and going as hard as you can in that allotted period of time, you're going to reach a certain level of fitness and aptitude and what you're trying to do, but you're very quickly gonna hit a glass ceiling and you're going to plateau and you're not going to be able to break through. So what is the way to break through, but we had to break through is to step it back and really again, go back to building that foundation from the ground up and focusing on if you slow down and really focus on improving your aerobic efficiency and it's time consuming, it takes time to do this. Um, then you are building a platform upon which that speed work, which you will do later, is going to catapult you into a new realm of proficiency.

Speaker 5:          02:39:19       So it's all about. It doesn't make sense. It's. So it's all about pushing the heart rate at a certain pace, maintaining that certain pace for prolonged periods of time, and then building up to the point where you could do that easier and easier and easier and that is your real big base and it's not about these wild sprints to your heart wants to fucking explode. It's actually about building up your ability to maintain a a heart rate even though you're doing more work, maintained the same heartbreak of 1:45. Is that weird?

Speaker 7:          02:39:48       Well, yeah. I mean that's just my personal example, but I mean it, it requires a different kind of discipline because you kind of have to check your ego at the door, you know what I mean? And, and sometimes you want that feeling of like I just exerted myself, I feel like I did some work, I got something done. And having the discipline to say every workout has a purpose and the purpose of this workout is I'm going to run for an hour and a half and my goal is to never let my heart rate exceed that zone threshold. So say if I'm going to finish the run and maybe I'm not even gonna feel that tired, I might not feel like I was like, I don't feel like I got anything out of that and believing in that program and sticking to it over time to build that house.

Speaker 1:          02:40:26       Do you think that that's a good way that someone should approach a martial arts as well? And that like strength and conditioning for martial arts, like say kettlebells or something like that, they should also do the same sort of thing. Maintain A.

Speaker 7:          02:40:37       Well, it's a little bit different because endurance sports are so much about efficiency of movement, you know, and over a prolonged period of time. Whereas something like Jujitsu or, or, or what have you is about explosive speed, but at the same time you're going to be in the ring for a prolonged period of time. If you have this sort of lung capacity and stamina to endure, you know, longer than your competitor so that you're fresher in that last round than he is, then you're going to have an advantage. So I think that what that would mean, and certainly I'm no expert in martial arts or what have you, so I don't want to get schooled for saying the wrong thing, but it would seem to me that in the off season, um, or you know quite a bit of time before you get into your training camps leading up to a fight, you would focus on doing a lot of base aerobic training work to kind of lay that endurance foundation. And then you build upon that with the specific strength and explosive speed exercises to, you know, have that pyramid come to a peak when it comes to fight day

Speaker 1:          02:41:38       one of the best fighters in the world. Uh, Nick Diaz is a unknown triathlete. I mean, he's a, he's constantly doing massive endurance work. And the thing about nick is that he puts guys a, puts them into a pace he sets them up. Like when he's, uh, when he, when he fights, he pushes a pace that other guys can't compete with. Like he uses his endurance. He uses his verse strong endurance base as an extra weapon. It's an extra. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, because he can, he can just keep going. He swimming back from Alcatraz twice. I mean he's got ridiculous endurance and because of that it seems like one of the scariest guys in the world because of that, because you know you're not going to wear them out. You're never going to wear him out. It's impossible. There'll be scrambling deep into the fifth round while you're gasping for air.

Speaker 1:          02:42:24       He'll be fine and he talks shit to you. Why he's beating on you sort of terrible time were alive at the same time. I'm sure he follows a basically a Vegan diet as well. That's what I thought. Yeah, he does it for performance reasons. I think jake shields does as well. I think jake may eat eggs occasionally, but I think that's it for a lot of people that don't know. I didn't know until I was 30 that uh, when you have an egg that's not like something died, the chickens just lay those eggs and if they're not fertilized by the mail through so he doesn't get in the henhouse those eggs or just go to waste beginning of them. You don't even have bad Karma Dude. Um, what could someone. Is there a book that someone could read about this? Uh, this conditioning thing? I know that for a lot of people that do Jujitsu, this is gonna be a really fascinating for a lot of people that do anything athletic. What, what is a good book that they could read about heart rates and. Well, they can read, they can read. My book will tell us what it is. What's your book? My book is called finding ultra. Actually, can I grab it? I have, yeah, please do. I would love to read it.

Speaker 7:          02:43:24       Here's it on the screen. Well, boom.

Speaker 1:          02:43:29       And is this, uh, uh, your life story? Is it also. Yeah. I mean, this is

Speaker 7:          02:43:33       as a, it's essentially, it's essentially memoir. It's like my personal story, but it has a lot about, um, how I sort of reinvented myself as an athlete and how I had to kind of relearn some certain principles about fitness that I grappled with and didn't understand initially that I'm sort of allowed me, I believe, to reach a new level of fitness sites that I certainly didn't think was possible, particularly as a middle aged guy.

Speaker 1:          02:44:00       And you did this all through that method of building up the aerobic base

Speaker 7:          02:44:04       specific thing that is, you know, not what most people are training for, but the kind of principles that we were just talking about I think are applicable to, you know, the, the sort of weekend warrior athlete, whether you want to go out and be able to feel good in your pickup basketball game or, or touch football or whatever it is. Um, it's how to use your time crunched a days effectively. You know, rather than just going out haphazardly and saying, I'm going to blast this 30 minutes on the treadmill and do it time and time again and wonder why you're never getting any faster.

Speaker 1:          02:44:36       So, um, so people can get any answers to any questions about conditioning and what you learned from finding ultra. Can they get that on Amazon? And it's everywhere. It's on Amazon, Barnes and noble. And if people want to reach you, it's rich. Roll our Ich, not rick, not fucking Rick Astley. This is not a joke. Rich Roll. The real rich roll. Just like the real rich Ross, but a different God. And you could find rich roll on twitter. Just rich roll R I c h a r o l is it the best way to get ahold of you? The best information on facebook to my websites. Rich Roll R I C H r o l l. well listen man, your story's an awesome story. I love a comeback. I love, I love a guy who figured something out in his life and makes a change and then spreads that information and you're inspirational dude.

Speaker 1:          02:45:22       And uh, having you on the podcast is really cool and I would love to do this again if you want to come in again. Feeling's mutual and we keep talking about this forever. I love it. Yeah. But I, I had to stop myself from the endurance questions. I would have bored the fuck of it. Like for my own technical man. I don't know if people really are going to be that. Some people will hopefully, um, uh, thank you. Uh, thank you very much man. Really appreciate it. So rich roll. I follow him on twitter. Go to [inaudible] dot tv, you dirty bitches and pick yourself up some funky ass cat tee shirts. Uh, and uh, and they come with a free sticker to. So you put it on your call so people come with a free steak or what are you? I thought you said you're sending those stickers so they pay for that sticker. Hooker. Go get yourself a sticker. But those, uh, you can identify fellow squatters and parking lots. And Shit's good. You. What's up?

Speaker 5:          02:46:10       Guy Just tweeted me. So that is a neighbor who had never met before, knocked on his door when he heard he was listening to this podcast. You heard my voice booming out of his living room. And so the neighbor knocked. I was like, man, I fucking love that podcast. So thanks everybody for you know, like I can't thank you guys enough for being the coolest crowds ever. Sacramento was fucking completely off the chain. I literally, uh, I never imagined that we would have these kinds of crowds on a regular basis. It's really amazing and we appreciate the fuck out of him. And what I said earlier is not lip service. I really do feel a massive obligation to you guys. I know that this has become a part of your life and it's supportive of our life too and everything we're doing, Brian and I is moving towards making sure we just keep doing more of this, keep digging deeper, keeping having more people, more cool people like rich roll come on the show and tomorrow Mac Danzig will be on, as I said as well the director of cocaine cowboys, Billy Corbin, who is also a cool motherfucker.

Speaker 5:          02:47:08       Thanks to thanks to era alienware MMA for sending us some, some cool ass laptops that Brian runs all the youtube videos on. If you go to follow them on twitter, alien mma on twitter, and thanks to onnit.com, use the code name, Rogan O, n, n I t the code Brogan will save you 10 percent off any and all supplements. All right, you fucking freaks tomorrow. We have a double podcast day. So first we'll be Mac Danzig and then it will be Joey Diaz and Billy Corbin. And then we have a spectacular show tomorrow night at the Ice House comedy club. It is dom irrera. It is Duncan Trussell, Doug Benson, Brian Red Band, Joey Diaz. The list goes on and whoever winds up coming by, they could, they could get onstage to. Alright, see you tomorrow folks without a key.