UlNvTTfUJ1A.txt

Speaker 1:          00:00:04       And we're live. What's up Joe? Man, I'm pumped to be here. I'm like a little kid here right now. Myelin around and loving it. Well, I'm excited. There's a big gloria event this Friday in Los Angeles. I'll be there. And um, it's a. You got two world titles, right? Nah. Yeah. Two is the two world titles. He advised Israel, Israel Edison. And yet that's a wicked fight. The good fight. And then you're looking at that. Matt embry and other Canadian kid against that Dutch beast. Robin van small and. Oh yeah, that's right. That's right. That's going to be a on UFC fight pass. Yes. Yeah. I'm so psyched that the UFC and UFC fight pass is embracing glory. It's super exciting for me. I think so. And it was that, uh, that huge collision card in Germany. You had rico versus butter and UFC ran that pay per view for us.

Speaker 1:          00:00:50       Oh really? Yeah. No kidding. That was the first time the UFC has run anything other than UFC. That's for us as a big accomplishment for kickboxing. Well, we know we've talked about in this podcast, we were just talking about it a couple minutes ago. I think kickboxing, especially high level kickboxing like glory is one of the most exciting sports in the world and it perplexes me and many other people. Why it's not more exciting. Crazy because it's not hard to understand what's going on. Like one of the things about mma that is very important to me. It's like when the fight to go to the ground, I have to explain step by step what's going on because otherwise people that don't know ground fighting the all of a sudden like why is he tapping what's going on? Like you don't see exactly what's going, but when someone explains it to you, you see it with kickboxing, it's pretty obvious.

Speaker 1:          00:01:36       Pretty obvious kicks and punches and knees. Yeah. Just so people are getting smashed. I Dunno, I don't get it. I seriously don't understand. Dana white has a really good theory. He thinks that PKA karate from like you remember the 19 eighties when they used to have those pka karate matches on espn for the karate pants and the big booties on their feet don't sit around and yeah, it was really just sloppy boxing with like some shitty kicks, but that's even American kickboxing. It's like they have a kick rule. So what would happen and they would throw eight kicks in the beginning of the round and then all of a sudden they boxed for the rest of the round. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And for whatever reason above the waist as well, which I think one of the things about kickboxing as opposed to the traditional martial arts or like taekwondo or karate, it's like as soon as you start adding leg kicks, like it changes the whole game.

Speaker 1:          00:02:24       It's a totally different game. It changes everything. And we were talking before this fight about your fight for this podcast were either about your fight with Raymond Daniels, which is one of my favorite fights ever. Thank you. Because he is this traditional karate guy who was a point fighting champion and he has wicked kicks. He's just one of the most spectacular and dynamic guys and kickboxing, but your leg kicks and your constant pressure and just rock solid Moitai fundamentals. You just chopped them down, chopped them down, and then eventually had kicked him. Yeah, it's that movement. Fighters are very tricky and I think what made that fight super exciting was that old school ufc mentality. You two different arts,

Speaker 2:          00:03:00       you know, battling to see which one was better. And Raymond Daniels was undefeated. He was just knocking people out with spinning hoecakes every time he was fighting. So, you know, as a, as a smart, intelligent fighter, you got to put pressure. And I remember we had a conversation about, you know, guys like a wonder Boy Thompson, why isn't his opponents calling someone like me to do it? But you had a good point. It takes a special fighter to really close distance and pressure like that and to be able to execute a game plan with heavy low kicks like that. So you have to really have a high level more tie game to deal with a guy like wonder boy the same way because we'll wonder boys also real unusual in his use of the front leg, like he is that sideways stance kind of upends a little at the waist and throws all those wicked front leg side kicks, round kicks and on top of that he's a really good punch her.

Speaker 2:          00:03:50       And He's good. He's impressive. Yeah. It's the rematch is happening, isn't it? With woodleigh? Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be in March in Vegas. That's going to be crazy. Yeah, that's a good rematch. It is a good rematch. Especially because Woodley was dominating that first round with his wrestling and really never took them down again. So I was like, wow, this is crazy. Like I wonder why he didn't take them down and I asked him after the fight, he goes, I have no idea why I didn't take them down. Okay. So it was just, he was just in the moment. It's loving event. It's loving the moment. Loving the experience. Yeah. It's exciting. So you now have taken some time off from fighting because of concussions. That's right. And tell me about that. So yeah, it was actually, I think you were at my last fight.

Speaker 2:          00:04:30       It was a, I fought mark the bond, you know, rest in peace. I remember we talked about the. Yeah, what happened? Did they find out what happened to him? I didn't know a lot of the stuff is coming out is in Dutch and Dutch newspapers and I'm asking all of the Dutch community kind of what's happening and they don't really know. You hear different things and rumors, but I don't want to listen to rumors that I don't want to hear it from like a concrete source and went missing and then they found his body and they basically found his body. Yeah. So why or who knows? But he was great. He was amazing. Excellent, excellent fighter, you know. And uh, he was another guy, but boy, you know, you look at him, he looked like a computer programmer. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, uh, it's interesting how it looks can be so deceiving.

Speaker 2:          00:05:11       It's super, super high level guy. Yeah. But that was my last fight and I'm from there was actually a really tough. I never really opened up about it to be honest with you. And it was a very tough experience. Um, you know, you got to think I just win the world title. I'm going home to Canada, which my concussion was pretty bad where I shouldn't have even gone on a plane home and next thing you know, I'm at home and just the concussions got really bad. I had to be hospitalized for a few days and uh, I was in a dark room for three weeks, then I could knock it out of a dark room for three weeks. I couldn't walk. Um, I guess something with the concussion started causing some neuron now. Nervous nerve damage that could be amazing. One of us concussion, nerve damage and effects.

Speaker 2:          00:05:56       I was like in a bad man. Couldn't even look out at a little red light on my phone. Charger was too much. Really? That was bad. It light on the phone charger would hurt your head. I couldn't even look at a thing. So it was at that point, it was like, man, it's like I just win this world title and it was a really tough time and this is actually the first time I've really opened up about it, but it was a tough experience. And being in that, you know, downstate where you're basically in a dark room for three weeks. Um, doctors were just, you know, handy me over shit ton of percosets and oxies to kind of deal with the pain. And it was, it was a tough time man. And it really, I think what was the hardest was what was happening mentally.

Speaker 2:          00:06:34       I'm sitting there and being like, man, I just want a world that I want to get back in there. I want to know do so much in this sport. And my goal was to be a legend in the sport and, but, you know, and then it got to the point I saw my family and how much it was affecting my family and that's when I decided that, you know what, let's put this unrest for a little bit. So you win the fight and after the fight is over, was it immediately that you knew something was wrong? It honestly, I had some adrenaline rush and I did the post fight press conference. Everything was fine. I was just when I got back to the hotel room and I was throwing up and couldn't leave my room and I was surprised that even got on an airplane home, the doctors in Canada or like how the heck did you get on an airplane home?

Speaker 2:          00:07:14       So it was scary times man and, and it took a lot of good mental strength to get out of it. And now I'm actually in a, in a position where I'm super happy and I'm loving it. I got that whole color commentary role with Gloria, which has been incredible because that's great. It's great that you found a way out of it. But man, I would imagine that when you were in that dark room and you couldn't even look at the light on a charger, that must've been really, really, really uncomfortable to deal with. It was tough and I know another like it's just the way of how can I explain it if it gets emotional sometimes, you know, it was a time where it was like I finally achieved what I wanted and no one has really gotten to that level and the time that I did before I turned pro, I only had 11 amateur fights.

Speaker 2:          00:07:57       I only had 11 amateur fights and right away into the pro ranks, they only had 14 professional fights. So you gotta think in 25 fights I was able to get in there, become a professional win the world title in the biggest kickboxing organization, all within 25 fights. Amateur professional combined. And how old were you when you won the title? Twenty eight. So you're still young. I'm 31 right now. But think about that. You know the amount of fights you had. Not that many in comparison. A lot of these Dutch guys, I'd have 100 plus fights. All the Thai guys that have more. It's crazy to think. Yeah, I think it's just bad luck sometimes and my style was a style that was really. It meant you could watch any one of my fights and you're going to be entertained. And I, I understood the value of, you know, it's more than just a sport.

Speaker 2:          00:08:42       You GotTa win, you got a dominant, you gotta be exciting. Um, I think that's what I really did in my career and that's what I, I got such a huge following behind me and you know, it's just, it was sucked because I had more, I want it to show, put it that way. Now when you see a guy like mayweather who's gone through a career and he's like 49 and o and is probably one of the best, if not the best defensive fighters of all time. And then you see what you went through with your situation. Do you, do you look at a guy like mayweather and say, men may be, maybe I should take a different approach or maybe I should have taken a more safety first approach. I'm torn between that because at one point, uh, if that's floyd mayweather, right? And you're looking at a guy who makes multimillions of fight and um, you know, he has that, a support around them and whether it's a boring fight and most people who watch the casual fans who watch floyd mayweather think he's boring.

Speaker 2:          00:09:37       Right? Right. But really, if you're a skilled fighter and you understand what he's doing, you understand how incredible of an athlete he is. A, but I was just thrown in there with the wolves men. It was kind of like, hey, you're fighting a cream Gaji in your third glory fight. Um, it's only as hundreds of professional flight. And that's my, that's my eight. So what do I do? Do I play the point games with someone who's been in that ring? Probably had 100 amateur fights, 100 professional fights. What do I do? So again, I have to go in there. I got to build a name for myself. You gotta think Canada, there's no professional fighting in Ontario, Canada, where I'm from. So there's no professional fighting. I had no experience. So my approach was I got to bring the heat to these guys. Wow. I got to bring the heat, I got to be exciting and I got to finish, just turned into a brawl.

Speaker 2:          00:10:23       Just turn it in, but again, I wouldn't use this as people always say, oh, you're in Brawley or aggressive, like, Nah, I'm a technician and actually when I'm coming forward and I'm stocking you, I'm waiting to counter kick him. You went in to use my low kicks and waiting a county, so it's very calculated. I wouldn't say Berlin. Yeah. That's probably not the right word, but you turn them into very violent encounters always. Yeah, always. Now when you watch high level kickboxing like glory and then you see what's going on in mma, where I think the level of striking is certainly advancing. You're getting better and better strikers, but it's really not at the same level that you're seeing in like world champion kickboxing. Yeah. It's totally different and people can understand. It's a totally different sport. The way you would fight in kickboxing, you're not going to fight the same way in mma begging me.

Speaker 2:          00:11:11       There's take downs and there's a lot of very successful kickboxers who don't do well in mma a lot don't because they keep that traditional Thai stance where they stand very tall and they're fighting very tall and of course the rest is going to take you down. I'm an example of a good Canadian strikers, Shane Campbell, Shane Campbell, one of the fights in the UFC and he's got an incredible background in Moitai, but he stays true to sometimes a little too much to his Moitai roots on the striking. You got to keep your hips back, you got to move. It's a totally different game. You got a four ounce glove, not an eight ounce gloves, so shit changes. Yeah. It also affects your offense to when you're worried about take downs, you're worried about all these different aspects of. Yeah. The clinch,

Speaker 3:          00:11:54       the cage, you know. Have you ever fought in a cage, A. No. We've been debating a lot lately. I talk way too much about it. People getting annoyed because I think that they should do it on like a basketball court. I really think fight should take place on a large surface with no obstacles, no nothing other than the fighters themselves. Did you like the pride ring over the octagon or. No? I think rings are dangerous. Like you started the Bernard Hopkins, Joe Smith Jr. Yeah, I mean that's a good example. WhY think rings are dangerous. It's not often that that happens where guys get knocked through the ropes, but It does happen and in pride I think, you know, they, they did a good job of standing outside the ring. Like the pride organization was good where they had a bunch of guys waiting to catch people. It's still weird.

Speaker 3:          00:12:37       It shouldn't have to come down to. Exactly. Exactly. But I get it for mma, but for like a kickboxing, I can't really see it being done in the cage. I know. I think you had them on john wayne par. Yes. Yeah, he does. Caged moitai yeah. Yeah. What, what's your thoughts on that? Well, he loves it, you know, and he does it with mma gloves too. That's dangerous. But then you're putting good strikers on without a takedown. That's dangerous. It's a different. It's totally different thing, you know, I mean it's a totally different thing with those little gloves too, right? Yeah. Have you done any fighting with little gloves? No. I was actually planning to fight a few times because before glory there was nothing. Uh, you got to look. There was originally, it was k one and k one only had a lightweight division and the heavyweight division.

Speaker 3:          00:13:16       So everyone in between kind of have to kind of pick away. I actually fought in la. It was against a ufc fighter many baghdad. Okay. So I fought many baghdad in la and it was just, I tried making for the first time one 60 and it was a guy to walk around. Uh, well my non fighting walk round about 200, uh, when I was fighting, but one 91 95. So you're trying to lose 30 plus pounds. Yeah, it was. It sucked. But I think, I think that's the other thing. Mma guys knoW how to cut weight a little better than kickboxers do its thing that's at wrestling. Growing up with that wrestling helps, but I think it's more dangerous with, well I know it's more dangerous with striking than it is with wrestling and that's one of the problems with that wrestling mentor brain. your brain's dehydrated.

Speaker 3:          00:14:08       Yeah. But see the, the advantage in mma of being bigger, it's not the same as the advantage of being bigger and striking because being bigger and striking is, is important. It's definitely a factor, but it's so much more of a factor when you're clenching so much more of a factor when you take guys down, you lose a little bit of speed sometimes and that mobility. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so when you were, when you thinking about sparring with little gloves, what, what differences did you notice or think about fighting with little gloves? It was more about moving more and I coach a lot of mma guys and um, I actually got to work in the ufc. I got to the corner twice in the ufc, which was pretty cool. I had mitch gagnon and I got to corner antonio carvallo who was mentioned fighting. Um, when he fought, he fought.

Speaker 3:          00:14:52       Um, uh, I have to dig deep here, a young kid, I want to say he was hawaiian, maybe knocked him out. I helped trained him for he fought while, well watson non demo with a left hook. Um, who was that other kid that he fought, but my last antonio fight was against derek. Darren elkins was, that was one of those fights where antonio got caught, drop pop back up and uh, even being called that off and we're like, ah, like it was an early stoppage. But yeah, he's protecting antonio. So it's interesting that a guy like you who is very high level world champion kickboxer learning how to fight and move with the small mma gloves. It kind of shows you that striking in particular with a mma striking is still learning growing food for sure because guys like you come in and you are like guys like duke roufus, a former world champion himself was really good at training guys and teaching guys duane ludwig's doing a good job.

Speaker 3:          00:15:51       perfect example. Yeah. And it's, there's so many different methods and so many different styles that people were trying to incorporate. I just think it's fighting is I think people focus fighting the way I look at fighting. It's not actually what you throw and I always get questioned what's a good coach versus a bad coach and a good coach is going to teach you positioning. Distance is going to tell you more of the philosophies and strategies around finding where there's so many coaches and with mma being so popular, there's every, every, every other corner has an mma gym and these guys are basically putting these fighters on pads and they're just getting them tired. Jab, cross, hook, kick, jab, cross, hook, kick, more combination combination and they get tired and they think tired equals good, where there's so much more to fighting. Where's your distance control?

Speaker 3:          00:16:39       How are you moving, you know, like what are your counters? How are you countering? What are your defense? people think there's a, there's defense, but there's different types of demons. You got head movement, you got shield defense, you got footwork for your defense, you know, you got perry. So there's so many different ways, but it does take good coaching in my opinion, to take these guys to that high professional level and there's not enough of it. Yeah, I agree. And it's so hard for a young fighter to find really solid coaching and when you start out, you're really kind of lucky if you walk into a great gym your first time because so few people, especially in the beginning really know how to differentiate between a great gym and just a regular gym. It's very, very difficult to tell. It's hard. it's hard. But back to your original question, it's about mobility in my opinion.

Speaker 3:          00:17:23       A guys that have been made need to know how to move a little bit better. Um, I think footwork is one of the most important things in fighting him. And you got to be able to adapt. If you're fighting a pressure fighter, you got to be able to move and fight on angles. Um, if you're fighting a guy who now likes to move a lot, you got to be able to pressure fight, so you have to have the coaching and the knowledge to be able to adapt accordingly. Yeah, and I think that a lot of people don't

Speaker 1:          00:17:50       see when you're watching kickboxing or you watching moitai, you're seeing these guys are standing close to each other and they're throwing kicks and it's like, it's hard to tell exactly why they're doing what. It's hard to tell exactly why one guy is more effective, but once you see it and once you practice it and once you do it, then it all starts opening up like a flower. Now when a guy like you is doing commentary, it really helps because a guy who's been in there, guys been a world champion and you get to explain what this guy's probably thinking, what's going wrong. And it sort of. I really liked your commentary, man. I been trying, man. It's done great. Turning. Thank you. Coming from you, your, your explaining things in a way that's opening up the game to people. It opens up the sport where you go, oh, okay, now I know what to look for.

Speaker 1:          00:18:39       Now I know what, what trends are happening. I'm trying to find the balance still. I think that's a good. I think that's one of my challenges. If I come in there and I started talking, uh, you know, his, his left heel is about two inches, which is causing this to happen and he's distance control is off. You needs to slip off. They're like, it's too much sometimes. So my challenge has been trying to kind of bring it down a little bit and try not to overly try to overeducate yeah, that's been my challenge. The other challenge is try not to use the same word all the time. That's what a good left hook, a big left hook. Because I'm trying to change words, man. I need a thesaurus beside me and just try to write shit down or something, man. Oh, I can tell you I've failed on all those exact same because talk too much.

Speaker 1:          00:19:21       Talk too much. Say the same words too many times. You call people to explosive and then like some people got mad for column explosive or athletically cockrum. You only talk about black guys, you call them explosive and athletic. I'm like, okay, this is white guys that are explosive and athletic too, but you can't tell me that certain guys aren't fucking explosive, but how you deal with it. Do you okay with it now? Like, I mean you probably. It's been hard for me, man. People come out and they take all your words seriously. Yeah. You go online and people are like, ah, you fricking don't know shed and they're talking crap. And I was Like, well they can't say that. Anybody who says that you don't know you're there and you're going to get that, but I think they keep you on your toes, man. I really do.

Speaker 1:          00:19:55       I mean, so I think for the most part, the majority of respectful fans and they might see something that maybe you don't know that you're doing that might be annoying and if it's annoying to them it's annoying. It might just. It might be only annoying to two percent of the people, but it might. There might be a way where you could eliminate that aspect of your commentary and I know I've worked hard at that. I think it's good. I think all the online criticism, as much as it's uncomfortable, like a lot of it fucks. A lot of fighters. Heads up, man kills people. You. I've talked to a lot of guys, coaches that were like, man, those trolls, man, they fucked with his head. I'm like, really? And like, yeah, he was always reading the comments and going on forums and can be dangerous. That can be freaking dangerous. I mean because you don't know who's making those things. I mean that can be a 12 year old kid who on adderall, who's kicking his cat and you're reading this guy's words like as if it's gospel and you want to argue with them and guys get you don't know shit

Speaker 2:          00:20:48       and like fuck your mother, but my mother, you think about it. It's harder than it. I thought commentary was going to be an easier job than I thought, but it's. I think it's harder than fighting right now because it's still new to me. I've only done 10 glory shows and um, I don't think it's official yet, but maybe I'll make it official here, but a glory signed me full time next year. Oh, that's awesome. Glorious. Had huge shows and do 18 shows next year. Whoa. And I don't know if I don't know how much you know about my life, but I'm also a full time high school teacher. You are. No kidding. So literally my morning I teach phys ed. I teach at a special education school, so I work with kids with special needs, behaviors, autism. So I teach phys ed to them. So that's nine, nine slash eight.

Speaker 2:          00:21:32       What time do we start? Eight 50. Five to 3:30. Then from three, I have an hour to eat my lunch or my dinner at that point and then I have my own gym, bazooka, kickboxing and mma. And so you teach classes after that? I train and I teach classes a couple of times we put, we have a big broken. I mentored her. Jim's huge, it's big, it's popular. So it's nonstop. And then at night I go home and I have to do commentary. what a bunch of lucky kids to have a guy like you as a coach, that's, that's amazing, but I never really got to reach my full potential and all the things I wanted to do with kickboxing. But this is where it's happening. Glory having me full time allowed me to take a year leave from teaching. And again, if you look at my instagram, you could already see the difference man.

Speaker 2:          00:22:11       Um, I want to educate people. I want to get people hooked to glory hooked to this sport. So I'm posting training videos, training tips. I got chris kamozi just a commented on one of my videos being like, hey man, keep up the drilling. I loved the drills I had john mccain. he just private messaged me saying like, hey man, good stuff. I've been following you. So it's just getting that word out man. That kickboxing is the shed and gloria is where it's at. yeah. sometimes it's just a matter of staying the course and continuing to put out content and we've played a bunch of your stuff on, on has been huge. You just posted something. I just got like a, almost a thousand new instagram likes and follows. So thank you. Oh, you're welcome brother. So now that you are in this position as glory commentator and you've recovered from your concussion, do you have any thoughts in your head of fighting?

Speaker 2:          00:22:58       Again, to be honest, there's more money doing commentary than there is in the ring. And that's where kickboxing, it's still that there's still not enough finances to make it worth. But it also comes down to is any money worth health at that point? You can make $10,000,000 a fight, but if you don't remember that fight after and you don't recover from brain injuries again, what do you do? I was having this conversation with some guys this week, um, that are not fighters. And they were asking me about a certain fights where people got knocked out and you know, how come, you know, when they came back, you know, they weren't as good. And my take on It was you never know how someone's going to recover from a loss. You don't know physically and your case is a perfect example. we're talking about a fight you want, where you won the world title. We dIdn't get knocked and he got

Speaker 1:          00:23:46       knocked down but not knocked out and you still had this concussion issue and when someone would look at you like right now you talk, great, you look fine. Doesn't look like there's anything wrong with you. People would be like, oh, he's fine, why can't you fight? But you know what man, there's, it takes a. And I'm going to be honest with this whole recovery period and it takes a lot out of you. It takes, you really have to find something deep inside of you. You have to find that mental strength to be, you know what? Because a lot of what people don't understand with concussions comes depression and there's um, depression is a big side effect of depression is a big side effect of concussions. So a lot of these guys that you don't see it. Yeah, they just get knocked out and then they're forgotten about.

Speaker 1:          00:24:27       Those guys go home, they're depressed. Uh, their brain chemistry is all mixed up. Their brains not recovering the same way. So it's actually hard. And these fighters are at home, probably crying themselves to sleep there, have headaches every day, but they just don't. ThEre's not enough education on what these guys are going through and suffering with and I know you're really big on it, but one of the big things that has helped me and we can go, we can branch off on this is uh, the use of cbds for brain injuries. That's been incredible for my recovery. Yes, cbd is non psychoactive compound in cannabis and it's a crazy thing that's going on here in the states. I don't know how you guys treated up in Canada, but it's essentially being turned into a schedule one drug now, even though it's not psychoactive. Well, it's 100 percent shenanigans by pharmaceutical companies.

Speaker 1:          00:25:18       It's 100 percent influenced by these people that stand to lose money because cbd oil helps a lot of people with inflammation. A lot of people with chronic arthritis, lung cancer as a potential to cure cancer. I don't know. There's not enough studies, but hey. Yeah, it certainly helps treat it. It treats inflammation and inflammation. Apparently if you talk to doctors, they'll tell you it's a huge issue and one of the biggest issues when it comes to diseases, discomfort and things like arthritis again, and headaches, you know like when you're taking a nonsteroidal antiinflammatory for a headache, like if you're taking an advil or ibuprofen, what you're taking is something that reduces inflammation. I mean that's what it's for. And cbd oil does the same thing, but it's natural. It's healthy. It's not bad for you and it doesn't get you high. It's not like something's gonna fuck you up at work has been crazy because when I was going in that dark room there for three weeks, I literally, doctors were giving me like six to eight percocets a day and they were giving me two muscle relaxants for my back pain.

Speaker 1:          00:26:17       So what was going on with your back? I don't know, something with a, you know, the nerves from my brain because it must have damaged some of the inflammation and it was causing this back pain and I couldn't even get out of bed with. So they were giving me all of these things to cope with it. WhEn and then all of a sudden I got my sisters and my family to do some research. At that point, man, I would've taken anything you could've given me. Coke, heroine, acid, you name it. I would have taken it to recover because those pills, they were messing me up. I was going through like I was living in a cartoon world in that dark room. I had no idea what's going on. I was tripping out and then it got to the point where I was like, listen, I've been.

Speaker 1:          00:26:51       I got people to research and they said, hey, these cbds help. My family did all the research and they ended up getting me some cbd stuff and so how did it for them? Did you take it? I got it as a, as an oil. So did you just take it on? Drops on your tongue and you put it underneath my tongue basically kinda thing and I was able to cut out all of those percosets and everything just with cbd oil in how long of a time? Right away. Right away. Right away. I stopped because again, with those concussions and brain injuries, a lot of times you develop insomnia. So I wasn't sleeping, I wasn't eating much. What's, what does cbd and cannabis good for munchies, munchies and sleeping so. And it was good for my recovery. So it's, it, it helped manage to get off all of those painkillers and now I'm able to, you know, be healthy and control my brain headaches and stuff without having to take ibuprofen and advil.

Speaker 1:          00:27:39       Are you still getting headaches? They come, yeah, they're still there and we gotta remember I'm working three full time jobs and if you're not, even if you, you know, your brain is healthy and you're working three full time jobs, you're probably going to get a headache or to throughout your day, but when you get a headache it's a different experience. It's different because you're also, you're so aware of where it can go. Yeah. Scary. So that's been helping men and I know you have, um, it's on my list to watch. But, uh, because I was explaining, I was like, yo, you got to tell brogan about your experience with cbd and um, I haven't got to watch it. I think you wrote it. It was a 2007 you came up with the union. Yeah. That was, um, that was uh, a documentary by my buddy adam who had, um, he lives up in bc and that whole area is essentially run by the marijuana industry even though marijuana is illegal.

Speaker 1:          00:28:28       So they made this documentary explaining how without marijuana your entire economies fucked. Like it's this underground economy and they call it the union. And so it was a really, really good. It's on my list. And then he went onto make the culture high, which is also an excellent documentary that he made after lunch. I watch both. Well, it's, uh, you know, we, we've been hoodwinked in this country, unfortunately in all countries now because of the influence of America. We've been hoodwinked by the propaganda that they came up with in the 19 thirties, which wasn't even about pharmaceutical drugs back then. it was really about the paper industry, huh? Yeah. It's William Randolph hearst who was a, a real creepy guy and he was the reason why a orson welles made that movie citizen kane. He was the, he was the inspiration for that movie. Okay. About one guy.

Speaker 1:          00:29:17       I was kind of dominating the world with his influence. And William Randolph hearst didn't just own newspaper companies. He also owned paper mills and he owned forest, these enormous forest where they would chop down trees to make paper with them. And in the 19 thirties they came out with a product called the decorticator. And the decorticator is a machine that allowed them to effectively process hemp fiber very easily because hemp is a very unusual plant. And that, like this table that we have here, this is oak. An oak is a very hard wood, will hemp. Hemp is as hard as a joke, but it's way lighter. It's like a freaking alien plant. Like if you pick up a hemp stock, like this is a decorticator that there, uh, this is, uh, this is, uh, like a modern one I guess. So you throw the hemp fibers in there and it grinds them up, which by the way, hemp is still federally illegal even though it's not psychoactive and there's so much stupidity that's all attached to this.

Speaker 1:          00:30:13       It was just so much. A tsa has to be under one percent thc or is that a myth? It's not. I don't make it legal to sell or something along those lines. I don't know. You can grow it in some states, but the thing is like federally, federally it's still illegal, but they're trying to change that. It's just slow and painful. And again, it's all the propaganda from the 19 thirties. So William Randolph hearst who own newspapers, they came out with this decorticator and then popular science magazine had this cover cv good. And jamie hemp, the new billion dollar crop because because of this, see they used to use hemp way back in the day, like the drafts of the declaration of independence were written on him. The sales that they used for, for boats were all made out of hemp. All that stuff was out of hemp.

Speaker 1:          00:31:00       In fact, canvas, the word canvas comes from the word cannabis, so the mona lisa was painted on him, so they came up with that and then when eli whitney came up with a cotton gin, cotton was more effective to use. Yeah, so they were going to use it for clothes and you see it on the cover of popular science magazine. It was on the cover though. Jamie. See if you isn't popular mechanics, is that what it is? Anyway, so they used to use it for parachutes. They use it for all these different things. But then when eli whitney came up with the cotton gin, it was easier for them to make clothes out of cotton because hemp requires a lot to break down the fibers. Such an abandoned cloth. Yeah, because it's a crazy plant and it makes this unbelievable paper, like hemp paper is so superior to this paper that we all use.

Speaker 1:          00:31:47       Like this paper that we use is shit. It rips so easy. Hemp papers really hard to epic. It weighs the same. It looks the same. It feels the same, but it's just a better fiber. So instead of William Randolph hearst embracing this, he would have lost millions of dollars because he would've had to replant these forests and tournament at him. He decided to go the other route and just start making propaganda against him. So he started calling it marijuana. See, marijuana was never a name for cannabis. Marijuana was a wild mexican tobacco. They took this name from this wild mexican tobacco just called it. They started talking about this new drug that's making white women get raped by mexicans and black people. Nice plant wizards, fIght war time, drug paralegal that we need hemp. Lots of it for mortgage. But hemp means marijuana to content is take the drug menace out of this useful plant. Hilarious. So all this

Speaker 3:          00:32:40       shit came from this one asshole, one asshole in harry anslinger who was the guy in charge of. Well, you know, they originally got a lot of people that were involved in the alcohol prohibition and once alcohol prohibition was done, they needed something else to fight. So they said, well look, we've got something right here. Which call probably does more damage to your body then? Oh, it does. Trust me, I was drunk as fuck monday night, monday night. I might've, I might've been blackout drunk. People tell me for like three days probably. Yeah. I feel like shit today a little bit, but so this, this propaganda, but they're still fighting this. They're literally still fighting. That's kind of like. It's little different, but why I'm kickboxing and mmas it was so hard to get into ontario stupid, you know, legislature and stuff from years ago that the language ruined.

Speaker 3:          00:33:28       It just ruins things. What was the language and it's something that was something about the belts, like we can't get kickboxing or, or more tie in ontario, Canada because of belt. No, It's because of some language inside like a legal documents and it's all within that language. It says something about you cannot perform kicks sir. That's why I like the. Ufc had so much dIfficult time to get into toronto, but it's in there now so it's not yet kickboxing. He's not in toronto. Above the waist on that. you can't do local, can't do low kicking fights or professional moy. Tai in ontario is insane. All old shit from years ago that, you know, the commissioner was following from long time ago and even if you ask fighters, like I had a conversation with matt embry who was fighting robin van route smiling and we were like, I don't even know what, why we don't even know it's Just, it's been in the legal document the way it's written and the terminology screWed us up.

Speaker 3:          00:34:26       But how is that the case when you can still have ufc fights and they're allowed to low kick and I think it comes to money probably comes down to money like everything else that's fucking crazy. It's ridiculous. But You gotta think too off topic, but look at the canadian kickboxing champions that have come out of Canada yet. Simon marcus, You had, um, which again, I know one of your favorite fights of the joe schilling. Yeah. My god. What a fight. That was insane. Yeah. And then went to the fourth round. Joe knocked him out. That was crazy. Crazy fight. Yeah. You had gabriel varga. He had myself now, matt embry, Robert Thomas from Canada, and we're producing all of these crazy athletes and we don't even have a professional system and it's crazy because there hasn't been one us glory champion. Well, at one point in time before mma or before the ufC, he really got a foothold in Brazil. The Canada Market was the biggest market for mma is outside of the United States. The ones that we had at the roger center, they're 70,000 people. it was gigantic or 60,000, whatever the fuck it was. It was nuts. It was insane. Yeah, and that was a also

Speaker 1:          00:35:38       a lot of it was because of george st pierre and george being such a great representative of Canada, a great representative of the ufc and a great champion like people flock to them. It's one of the things about Canada is how loYal canadian citizens are towards their fighters. Even if you ask toronto blue jays, the toronto may police, man, We're passionate fans. That's why kickboxing has to come there. We're going to build it. There's. There's talks about it so it can glory make something happen. Here is talk about the rules here. The fouls administering a kick to the leg, spinning back fists or illegal, striking the face with any part of the arm. Elbows are illegal. Chopping to the back of the neck. Oh, they watched too much. Flintstones fucking karate chop. Striking a blow to the groin area. Butting with the head. What's the top one?

Speaker 1:          00:36:21       Jamie? Number one, striking a blow with an elbow or a knee. you can't strike a need of the box. They don't get how it works. Oh, that's hilarious. But how did the ufc I think is so it's got to be. I think you need a big chunk of money to kind of even get the commissioner to look at. You. Look at this professional boxing where blows may be struck with both the fists and the feet. That is weird. So this is the same laws that apply to boxing. They use for kickboxing book. You can only kick with the fee. Now what if you kick someone with a head kick and you hit with the shin? Is it illegal? They don't even knoW that you shouldn't take. No one thinks you're kicking with feet. That's hilarious. Sweeping above the ankle. She can't even have a fucking.

Speaker 1:          00:37:04       You can't even sweep someone. It's, it's, it's ridiculous. Above the ankle so you can't sweep right? You just sweep shitty, shitty. But it's okay. Yeah, it's crazy. Intentionally using block. You can't block within the chat below the waist, so I guess there's no need. The block a body kick you block with a body kick. Oh my god. Intentionally evading contact or they got a lot of fucking wacky rules. Striking a blow with an open glove. They changed the commissioner who was kind of really strict too. This is now out. So this one would changes using abusive language? No, nick diaz fights in Canada. Folks disobeying the referee going down intentionally. Intentionally using the nea as a block. Wow. Extending the legs for the purpose of preventing an opponent from kicking. what? Yeah. What the fuck is that? It's messed up. How weird is that? Extending the leg for the pope?

Speaker 1:          00:38:05       Purpose of preventing an opponent from kicking. I'm guessing this was written in 1990, but that doesn't even make any sense. Like, you can't even use it team then, like if you wanted to extend your leg like a tape is to extend the leg, mean your front kicking a guy, you're pushing them off. You could say that. That would like, I've been to one of my, um, one of the guys I train is troy sheridan. He fought in above the weight, kickboxing fight professionally. He actually fought, uM, another old ufc fighter. Jesse ronson, he think he's fought twice on the ufc and

Speaker 2:          00:38:36       before he got released, jesse ronson who was. Oh, johnny johnny's terrio. Yeah. He was just one of the best known canadian kickbox. He was a bad Motherfucker. My Above the waist of the waist. Kickboxer he was the, he was the man, but that day and he was one of the few guys that was like really exciting. It would knock guys dead. I didn't get to watch a lot of it, but I've, I've done my research and watched a few of his fights after and that's crazy for god about him for a long time until justice conversation. Well, you goTta think a rufus, rufus as brother. Sure. Rick rufus. Yeah. Rick rufus was one of the most popular I would say. Oh, for sure. Well, he was so flashy too. He could do so many wild techniques inside the octagon. Did you ever see the fight where he fought a tie fighter?

Speaker 2:          00:39:25       Yes, I did. Yeah, those low kicks, man. I wasn't exciting. Fight to down to that and his stuff's good. He posted one with the mine and mark to bond and he put a nice little. The way I set up that high kick. He's good. Yeah, he's very good. And it's interesting because the way that fight essentially changed a lot of people's ideas about low kicks because even duke roufus like they interviewed roof is after the funny thing. It was like 19 and he's like, well, it doesn't take any talent to just kick the legs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I rememBer. That was crazy weird idea. You gotta ask him about that. We talked to him about it. He's a huge proponent. He became a world champion, you know, loves his low kicks. He was seeing his brother at such a young age, but that opened up everyone's eyes to low kick.

Speaker 2:          00:40:11       Oh yeah man, but the low kicks he people think like, my style of the low kicks style is like, there's a new thing is actually a really old concept that was kind of forgotten about. And then there's only a few people that came in and stuck true to that low kick style. I think it's underrated, especially in mma. And I think I'm going to bring it up about mma. Everyone was like, yeah, but the takedowns of good low kick is based off timing. Um, if I'm going to sit there and get a lead with a low kick against the rest of their. Absolutely. He's going to take me down every time. But I think it's the timing of the low kick that people need to understand. If someone's exiting backwards, that's your time for the low kicks. So if you put, especially in mma where people can't really stand in the pocket, they move and they exit as soon as they get outside of punch range, that's perfect.

Speaker 2:          00:40:56       Low kick time and you'll get so many free low kicks on mma. Guys and Their legs aren't strong. Mma guys aren't used to that. Um, body damage that kickboxers are, and I remember, um, my coach coach gary goodridge, um, and gary once told me, he's like, when he got fought both kickboxing and mma, he came back and said, he's like, I knew I could go to the after party when I fought mma, but he goes in after a kickboxing fight. He's lIke, I'm not getting out of my bed. You got to think how much shinta shin kickboxers go through compared to an mma fight. How often do you see a late kick checked in the or there?

Speaker 1:          00:41:34       It's getting better. It's getting better, getting better. But I, I agree with you and that's another thing that people always complain about me, but I'm always calling for low kicks and saying I'd like to see more low kick. So I like to see him kick his legs more. But I think you're right too, that it takes someone who understands moitai at a very high level to be able to pull that off and do it in combination. When you're seeing sometimes in mma is you would see a lot during the george st pierre era where guys were afraid to kick because george was so good at timing explosive, but again, who was he fighting against? He wasn't fighting against a guy who actually knew how to use the proper. Yeah. Yeah, and we don't really see that many people lIke, I mean you have a few in the sales division.

Speaker 1:          00:42:12       Would you say jose though? Joseph has spectacular leg kicks, no doubt about it. And he was killing guys. Oh yeah. I mean, you look at the notoriety, right? Favorite fight was horrendous. I called that fight and afterwards, you know, uriah posted all these instagram pictures and social horrible leg, swollen leg twice the size and yeah, got it. There was a meme on my phone. I keep sending because a lot of times inspiring and some will smash my guy's legs and then I'll send them the picture and being like, tag someone who doesn't know how to block a low kick and I just keep sending that picture out of mess around with everyone. But yeah, it was brutal. Brutal. Now what happens to your ears? Your eyes leg? Oh yeah, yeah. He had to go in a hyperbaric chamber to try to lessen the, uh, the injury.

Speaker 1:          00:42:57       Try to heal the injury quicker, but people don't understand the damage they do. It's like, hey, if every time you punch, I smash your leg, you're not going to want to punch me. And that's the timing I use. So as soon as someone jabs, you take the leg because when someone punches, they have to put their weight on their front leg and once you put your weight on the front, like you can no longer block at that point. So if you watch any of my fights are guys with good low kicks, they usually timed the low kick off the hands because, or the step because every time you step you got to be heavy on your, on your front foot. And that's the opportunity to hit that low kick. So you want to look for what I call free low kicks ones where they can't block.

Speaker 1:          00:43:32       So as they're exiting up or as they step in or you've tried to find those free ones when they're planted on their legs and they can't lift up there like the black jamie put up, see If you can find joe's fight with Raymond Daniels because like I said before, this was one of my. And I'm a big Raymond Daniels fan by the way. It's not a knock on him at all. I think he's awesome and I think his style is very important because it's very, it's very important to know that there is a guy who can do the kind of stuff that he can do. It's incredible. He does that jump side kick, spinning back kick. I mean he does a lot of wild shit inside the octagon and so this fight to me was a really important fight for just martial arts strategy and technique to see how a guy like you, who's super high level guy deals with a guy who's completely unorthodox in terms of traditional kickboxing techniques, you know, he's got a style that is impossible

Speaker 2:          00:44:32       to emulate inside inside the. Again, I fought kareem gaji over a hundred fights. nikki hold skin over 100 fights. I've fought guys mark to bond over 100 fights. He was probably the fighter I was most scared to fight because all this wild shit. I'm like, man, do I. The last thing I want to be as part of a, a knockout real of Raymond Daniels spinning hook, kick knocking me the frig out. So I mean I was scared then. So at this point, like even in round one, it was just like, what the heck is this guy going to do? I had no idea what the heck this guy was going to do. One of the things I really love about watching fight too is always a very high guard, very high guard, very good fundamentals. And even when you're doing those training sequences that you put on instagram, everything you do, you're, your guard is high.

Speaker 2:          00:45:16       You're doing everything by the book. Solid basics. The key. Who is your original? MY original trainers palmen has and that was the one who trained gary goodridge through k one and pride. But yeaH, paul men has. He's the one who really developed my low kick style and I just was able to really put it together and showcase his strategy of low kicks. The way he used to explain it is that people think a low kick is a low kick, but it's, it's not you gotta think we're on the shin. Are you landing the cake? Right? If you land more of the lower part of your shin, that's more of a setup. You might want to use your low kick to set up your hands. You might want to have it as a feeler just as a distraction. Um, if you start landing higher up on the shin, those are more finished low kicks.

Speaker 2:          00:46:01       the angle you throw it at the timing you throw it at. So when we were, when paul was training me, he would kind of classify like nine different locations based on where on the leg gets hitting and where on your shin your landing. So there's so much more. It's like a jab. There's not just theirs up jabs, there's, you know, jab with your head off to off on angles. There's low jabs, hijabs. Each job has a different purpose in same thing with the low kick or you just lit him up with that low kick and you saw that little limp that guys start doing. When you see right there, like once you start landing these big shots to the legs, you slow them down considerably. Now what did you do to prepare for his movement and this front leg style? Because he was throwiNg a lot of front like psychics to your front leg.

Speaker 2:          00:46:46       It was just this fight. What lot of people don't see when you fight, it's a lot of it is risk control. You can't just chase raymond as you have to get him against the ropes. You got a corner room and if you see when he blitzes, I don't move back. If you move back, you give him an exit and an opportunity to escape where if you stay. See when he blitzes, I stay right in his pocket and it opens up the low kick and you're forcing them to move backwards as well, which it's very tiring. Yeah. Yeah. It's. Most people get way more tired moving back. Then they do. Moving forward. it seems like you're both fighting at the same pace, but who's doing more work? Well, this round was more of a feel around and you've got to remember after this fight I fought nikki holtz a, so it's

Speaker 3:          00:47:30       20 minutes later. Fucking crazy. Twenty minutes later. So a fan of that. I really admire that. I. I personally don't. You got to think your brain is still shook up from that first fight if not fully recovered. and in my opinion, the best fighter doesn't necessarily come out on top and internal too many variables. Yeah. Well it's crazy. It's fun to watch. It's, it's exciting when you're watching it because it builds up to one eventual champion and you get to watch all these fights take place during the night, but I think especially you're getting hurt and then you recovering a little bit and then going back in again. You're still busted up from the first fight. I probably lost a good 10 years of my life after that night, but what are you going to do? Yeah, but there used to be eight minute tournaments. Yeah. Aight man tournament.

Speaker 3:          00:48:11       So that's three fights in one night. Do you just want nikki holds can twice a just once, just once, just once. And in one night you got to think. I got one of the knockouts of the year in this fight and I got the fight of the year. Nikki and I one fight of the year that year where we jUst sat and exchange combinations for three rounds. No, it was an awesome fight. Now they are. You see like he started to limp. No. Did you bring anybody in that, that, that kicks like this that throws those front leg side sidekicks and the hopping kicks. You know what? It was very tough. I experimenTed with a, a taekwondo guy and it just wasn't the same. And the problem is a lot of these karate guys, they can't handle that constant pressure. There used to guys standing, keeping distance with them, letting them kick.

Speaker 3:          00:48:52       But I was too much of a bully for those guys. I was able to just stay in the pocket. They try to throw spinning kicks. I would just push them on the ground. It was like they couldn't handle like the constant strong pressure style. It's, it's, it's definitely interesting to watch how far, how it's so much more. Yeah, there it is over and over again and you're seeing them limping now and you're noticing them as you're fighting, you're noticing that and you keep hitting that same spot and now he's moving and he's standing. Soundcloud, you can tell he's done. He mixes it up a little bit. I mean, he does switch the stances, but you could see he's really trying to protect that left leg now he's keeping it back. Now. When you did bringing those guys, was there anything that they could show you about how to avoid those kicks are more just kinda like, hey, this is kind of the distance and the setup.

Speaker 3:          00:49:41       These are the kind of few things you need to look at. But I was really, uh, uh, in my fiker, which I kind of have a different philosophy now. Now that I'm a coach a lot more and I'm looking at fighting a little bit differently. Um, but here I knew I was going to fight my fight. He had to fight my way, um, if not, he was going to be in trouble. It was three in a row. Boom, boom, boom. You just chop and chop and at that leg, to me, this is like the fight that I show people when I show people the difference between a really good thai fighter who is fighting a guy who throws a lot of flashy stuff but doesn't really know the low kick game. And he throws those things, but there's not a lot of threat outside those spinning attacks. He does have that explosive lefthand but good. You can shut that

Speaker 2:          00:50:28       down really good. Well, he's, he was a great karate point fighter, but his, not. His boxing has come along way since this fight. I think he learned a lot about a lot of things in this fight, but his, um, his hands weren't the big threat, you know, that's one of the things that differentiates him from wonderboy. Also wonder boys obviously fighting with smaller gloves, but wonderboy has nasty hands. So if wonderboy in raymond dan is where to fight and kick boxing, who went? That's an interesting question. I wonder boys, undefeated kickboxing, but he hasn't checked box things. I don't know. I'm like, you hear about this guy's like, oh yeah, he's, you know, he's undefeated as a kick boxer. I was like, hey, we're the same weight if you're undefeated in years, so how can we never heard of each other or saw each other?

Speaker 2:          00:51:12       Like what happens with a lot of these guys and, and, and with kickboxing, there's so many different organizations. So you'll see guys that'll come around and say like, I'm a, I'm a 10 time world champion. Are they okay. Like where there's, I think there should be, like there's one world champion that matters right now and its glory. Right? So any other belt than that? To me, I don't think you're a world champion. Well, what about lion fight? What about more time? I mean, obviously it's a little bit different. A different class. I would say more thai and kickboxing are very different. What do you like better? I'm a straight kickbox. And why do you like kickboxing better than more time? Because I like to rely on pace, uh, more aggression and more, uh, I'm a combination style fighter, so I liked him, always mix up, kicks and punches, punches and kicks.

Speaker 2:          00:51:54       Um, I fought to full rules, more time fights. One of them was I'm a french fighter who was again sick. My sixth professional fight. It was his 70th and he came in. He was just, I beat them up on the outside, but as soon as he came close, he clinched up with my elbows, elbows, elbows, and he split my head open. Six weeks later I fought that and it's actually, I'm on youtube. I fought a medi baghdad. That would be a cool one for you to watch. 'em and I put a little clip on if we want to find it after this one, it's literally like I've made it into like a two minute clip and it's just beating the crap out of him. And he landed two elbows and I got like 30 stitches at the end of that fight. Covered In blood. I got like a three inch gash in my head.

Speaker 2:          00:52:37       I had five stitches off my eyes. He landed two elbows, two strikes, basically the whole flight. And those two strikes were the damaging ones. Wow. Which I mean, okay. It's cool. I knew I wanted to be a kickboxer, so I never focused on my elbows. Could I be a more thai champion? Absolutely. But my focus was on kickboxing and at that point to get into the k, one max. Right, right. I want it to fight this mbds. I want it to fight aLl of the, you know, the book cows. I wanted to fight those guys. So my focus was always on kIckboxing from the day I started. You will. That was, that was the big organization. K one was the big organization that kind of opened Up kickboxing to the world, you know, in Japan, did an amazing job oF that. And then they had, of Course, it's showtime and it's show time ran for awhile and that they became glory, right?

Speaker 2:          00:53:25       Yeah. There's part of it. And they shut down because there was. The problem is there was a lot of problems happening in holland. Uh, there was a lot of like, um, illegal stuff happening. It's illegal to finish right here. This is your Battery. I'm now just the amount of shots. That's it. Had care console over the amount of shots that he took to the legs. Now when you were saying that mma fighters, they don't have the toughness of the legs, they're not used to taking the punishment and the legs. What is the difference? Like hOw does, how does your legs get tougher from getting kicked? Well, it's like, um, if you look at martial arts in your body, your body has, it's your armor. So you gotta look at your body as armor. If you don't strengthen that armor, you're only as strong as your armor can hold, right?

Speaker 2:          00:54:05       So if you're not training your Body to get hit, um, it's, it's, you can't really take as much damage. So if you're constantly taking low kicks every day in training, you build up that endurance and that tolerance and that strength to be able to take hard, low kicks. But a lot of guys, if you're not used to that taking heart arm kicks. When I my first professionaL fight, I left with like welts on my forearm. My knees would be swollen, I couldn't even get my shoe on after the fight because everything was just so swollen and you just take so much damage on the body that eventually it hardens and gets stronger and like, I mean you got to look at our shins or kickboxing and muay thai. Shins were going through bats, whatever you want. We're just constantly kicking things where an mma, there's not as much focus on condItioning and hardening the body because you don't need it as much, but what does condition the legs take that kind of punishment and constant hitting loosen years of training or getting someone to constantly lightly touch your legs, build up the tolerance.

Speaker 2:          00:55:04       You got to build a strong armor to be able to withstand whatever damage. What I'm confused about those, like what is the physical response that your body has to getting physiologic clots? Well, I know the shin for example, every time you spend there's like those microfractures that then calcify, which then caused the shin to harden. And again, even if the difference between my right and left shin, my right shin is probably double the size of my left one because I'm used my right shin a lot more really. So I mean it's just constant years of training your body to do it. And what about this, what about your quads? And although the lake, I wonder what it is, is it nerves? Your nerves are able to withstand the pain or is the big difference? And it's weird because I've been doing it so long where I can usually stand in front of you, give you like little lake tapps and I can kind of see how hard your body is. If you can withstand a low kick or now you just. It's a feeling mechanism so you feel how they're responding to it is how they put their weight, their pressure on it. You can tell. You can really tell and when you fight someone and that's where those guys that have a 100 professional fights have that. There's a lot of wear and tear, but those guys have a body armor that really takes a lot to try to damage an older those forearms or those lake cakes or it was just years of accumulated

Speaker 3:          00:56:24       damage in the body. Heart ends up is weird because like you see some of the ties that just blast each other and you'll watch them low kick each other and you never see him limping. No. You know what I mean? And you see this fight that you had with raymond and you see like after you know a minute or in the fight when you kept chopping, there was one moment in the fight in the first round. I remember watching it live and you caught them with one low kick in the first round. I went, oh, there it goes. You see that little dip you know am and you see the little dip that their body goes and like, oh, this is not good. And you got to think. I've probably sparred with thousands and thousands of different mma fighters and soon as we start sparring, I'll tap the leg once, tap the leg twice, three times, and they're like, no, no, no.

Speaker 3:          00:57:02       Can you lay off the leg? I was just like, okay. All right, cool. Yeah, I guess so. I'll just hit the other leg. The other leg will hit your body, but I mean, yeah, it's like, it's a different type of body conditioning. Is there any way to do it other than just getting kicked there? I mean, does anybody. Not that I know. I think it's just years of accumulation bottles on their shannon's that I tried to find research on that. I don't think so. I don't think so. I did when I was young. I'm like, hey, look at me. I'm putting a rolling pin over my shin, but I guess it kind of takes out that the nerve damage a little bit. I don't know all the nerve endings and preventing shot to numb them out a bit. Um, I don't know. Yeah, it is interesting.

Speaker 3:          00:57:45       It's interesting because it's not, it doesn't necessarily make sense. Like when it comes to the muscle of the, of the thighs, like it's got to come down to nerve or because it's not really bone that's getting stronger. I would love to talk to a doctor who understands moitai you. Do you know anybody that's like a doctor that train started. I'll find out. I'll tweet you out the answer and then I'll find it. Yeah. Because it definitely seems like. I mean especially like we said, the ties and these guys that have 100 plus fights and you see them getting low kicked and it doesn't seem to affect them at all. I mean it's landing. It's an effective strike, but the difference between the way it would affect them versus the way it affect a person's never been low kick before. Yeah, it's interesting. It's the most underrated a technique and all martial arts.

Speaker 3:          00:58:27       I agree because until you've been low kicked, like once you get low kicked, once you go, oh jesus. Anyway, it's usually, it's, it's those. It's usually when you get those parties and you're drunk go those leg kicks her hurt and then all of a sudden they're like, just give him one. And I was like, no, I was actually messing with someone once and I was like, Bruce Lee had the one inch punch and I was like, I'll give you a one inch low kick and you won't walk for a month. And he didn't believe it. I'll give you, I'll give anyone if anyone listening wants to have a one inch located. How do you set it up? What do you do? All they gotta do is put my literally my shin one inch away and just bang done. So like it's hitting the right part. You got to know where to hit.

Speaker 3:          00:59:07       So you would uh, have like, almost like you're throwing a kick, like a controlled kicking. Stopping at. I'll just go right on that part. Tell any man new one inch low kicks. I'm going to start it. You, you should make a video about one inch lower kicked challenge. I bet you I'm going to do it now. You were saying early on, I wanted to go back to this, that your thoughts on fighting have changed from being a fighter to being a coach because I think right now I had, when I was fighting, I had to have a one dimensional approach. What worked for me and now as a coach I, someone asked me the question, you, they're like a new student who's very talented, comes to your gym. He has, he's not strong, he's not really as athletic as you. He doesn't have the training background as you.

Speaker 3:          00:59:55       How do you make that guy a world champion? And I was like, huh, that's interesting. I'm like, he's not big, he's not strong. So he's not going to be a great pressure fighter that's going to be able to withstand a lot of damage. So what happened? So I want it to create a system of fighting that is kind of universal. Um, I don't really want to have. I want to have a system in my fighting at bazooka kickboxing that you can go onto a street fight, you can go and do an mma fight, you can kick box. You got to have that knowledge and the skillset to be able to fight everything, and that's my goal as a coach right now is to make a universal system that can handle anything. So if you've got a pressure fight versus move, if you've got to keep distance, if you need to jab or box, you got to be able to have it all.

Speaker 3:          01:00:36       Um, I don't agree anymore too much with a one dimensional approach, but the one dimensional approach was good for you as a fighter because you found out where your skills in directed you gotta. Look, I, the way I look at it as I wasn't an exceptional case, I'm an exceptional athlete that was gifted with a strong body, strong mind, good dedication, a very motivated, so it all worked in my favor, but now I have a guy who was fighting amateur kickboxing. How do I train that guy to be successful? Do you think that that helps you as a fighter? Because he didn't know a lot of jujitsu guys. They start coaching and once they start coaching and teaching lessons there, joe, their game jUst jumps. It was being a color commentator. That helps a lot. He was like, I got to show you like after or whatever.

Speaker 3:          01:01:22       I'll show you my notes on what I do and I'd be interested to see your thoughts on it. Do you write your own notes for, for the events? We wrote notes as far as like your fighter notes or do you. Are you now just experienced enough to know about the fighters? It depends entirely on who the fighters either because many, many times I'm watching the guy fight for the first time and if I've never seen someone before, what I like to do is I like to watch some youtube videos of them, like to watch him fight. I read what their background is. So you do do a lot of research still you have. See I say I do research. I say I don't do any research because I would've done it anyway because like, like, like I'll do research for gloria. I don't work for gloria. Yeah. But you still want. I'm saying. Yeah. So like your fence? Yes. So it's like say if there's a big fight coming up, like I'm like, here's a perfect example, this, this, uh, holly holm, germane to random me. They're going to fight for the ufc for that. Yeah. And what's interesting to me is germane to random randomize a multiple time world champion and who's had a hard time dealing with the

Speaker 1:          01:02:20       clench, dealing with people, taking her down, dealing with the other aspects of them. And she's trying to find our groove. But as a dutch girl, nasty strike or real tall, saw her was at ufc 200. Was she In the Brazil card with cyborg or something? She'd like to vicious. She's vicious. She's very, very good striker. So what, I'm curious. It's very interesting because you know holly, who looked like a fucking dynamo when she fought ronda because ronda fought the absolute worst kind of fight. You can fight with holly, run right at her. You go straight go at her because she didn't want her to bully her and you just can't, you know, holly, so good at evasion. So good at using angles and so good at stopping. And then countering, punching straight punching and that, that weird oblique kick that they, a lot of the winkle john guys like to do to the thigh.

Speaker 1:          01:03:09       Do you use that? Kick it off. It's a weird kick, right? A lot of guys use that kick. I mean, have you, um, you know, um, there's, there's some guys that really know how to, to, to land that well, and I'm starting to see it. I'm thinking, man, it's um, it's, it's, it's an interesting kick. But the john guys in particular, gals too. Holly is really good at that. It's like the front kick. It's when anderson silva knocked dell bell for and everyone was like, whoa, the front kick, look at this amazing new weapon. Like it'S probably the first kick ever taught in traditional martial arts. It's just he made it so popular and then all of a sudden you see it as a new trend where everyone started throwing front kicks to the face. It became like a new popular little trend there for a little bit that hey look, front kicks work again.

Speaker 1:          01:03:58       It's just they were forgotten about. And that's what I'm hoping with the low kick they were forgotten about. And then they come back. Yeah, I think there's room for a lot of different kicks in mma that aren't there yet. And one of them that we're seeing in some organizations is acs kicks. And I saw some. Well there was that guy that was fighting and mma for awhile. It gfc adlon. I'm a gov. Who's a wild fighter man. And he now he retired. he stopped fighting and mma. But he was really talented man. He knocked out it was tj walberger I believe in the ufc with an ax cake. No, he, I forget what he kicked him with and punched him with too. But he, he had wicked kicks and incredible flexibility. So he had this ability to utilize techniques that you don't necessarily think of as knockout techniques, but he would smash guys with acs kicks in front kicks and round kicks. And just for those, uh, the kickboxing fans listening. Andy hug. Oh yeah, yeah. And hook kicks to the lay. Yes. Yeah. There's a guy fighting on la. I'm on the show. You're at gudo. Innosense he fought. He fought in the ufc twice. Yeah. He fought in strikeforce ones. He has a kickboxing finish with a spinning heel kick to

Speaker 2:          01:05:18       it. Yeah. Yeah. His wheel kicks are nasty man. All all. What about that other kid on the last few years? It rodriguez. Wow. Wow. That was hard to watch. Yeah, it was very tough to watch. But the kids incredible. Oh, he threesixty roundhouse kick. Bj penn in the face. I don't know how bj didn't go down. I'll be just got an iron chin man. Lorens larkin. Pull up lorens larkin versus who did these stop? What does lauren's larkin's god dammit. WhY can't I remember this right now? John howard? No. Nope. Okay. Lorenzo larkin's recent fights. Neil magni. Jesus christ. Pull up a lorenz larkin. Neil magnet, because I want. I want to show them that oblique kick to the body and what am I. My guys out there that's In the greenroom. Matt special. He actually sent me the fight and have it was too busy with glory notes, but he sent me that exact fight to watch.

Speaker 2:          01:06:14       Lauren's larkin's a motherfucker. He's really good and his. He does a lot of spinning wheel kicks to the thigh to. He does a lot of wild shit. Why not? I think any kid should Be able to be thrown at different levels for sure. And that's what makes that kIck more effective. If you're constantly going at one level, it becomes easy to defend. So you got to change the levels. That's why. Same thing as southpaws guys don't kick enough for myself, paul. Um, or If they do, it's constantly one. It's either the inside leg, they're not attacking the back legs, the bodies, the head. You got to change levels. Not enough self paws are changing levels. With that left kick, do you experiment or use any traditional martial arts techniques? Like do you ever throw sidekicks or spinning kicks? Not anymore. I've, I've really taken like, I've really been taught to keep really tight on a shield, but now my whole style has actually been trying to like add dimensions to it.

Speaker 2:          01:07:08       So I've been boxing a lot more and even though, yeah, I've had the concussion, it doesn't mean I stopped being a martial artist. This is when my real martial arts training has evolved. UM, when I was fighting, I couldn't do all this stuff. When I was fighting, I didn't have tiMe to sit there. Like for exAmple, the last three months I fought southpaw, I've been training self paul just to. It's a new dimension to my game. so now's the time. I get to be a full time martial artists and learn. Watch how he throws this oblique kick to the body, back up a little bit because this is the end of the fight. He's setting it up with the low kick. Well, he sets it up with everything, but it's what's interesting is the distance where he throws this oblique kick, he throws it like right there.

Speaker 2:          01:07:45       Boom. I see how he throws it. It's crazy. Yeah. Heel and toe out. And uh, he, he's so fast. well, you know, I liked that because if the elbows in gets the foot probably just outside of the elbow or inside, it kind of follows the inside forearm nicely. Yeah. Lorenzo is the best I've ever seen a throwing that kick and throwing it right in there. tried right there. I miss, but he throws it from tight quarters and guys think he's gonna throw low kick. So he missed it, mixes it up with that. He's using the kick and

Speaker 1:          01:08:16       then he sets it up with, you know, with either the oblique kick or the low kick and he constantly varies. Um, [inaudible] that kicked traditionally is meant to hit with the heel, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean he's hitting him with the heel, but it's um, it's so weird to look at because you're like, oh yeah, you can do that to this setup is unreal with the low kick there. Yes. Yes. It's set up is great. And this was a great fight for him because, you know, I knew lawrence was super talented before this, but neil magnum was a highly rated guy and lauren just ran through them. I mean is the difference in the striking magnet is a really good all around fighter. He's really well rounded. He's got incredible endurance, but what lorenzo was able to do is avoid all this stuff, avoid the ground game, keep the fight in his wheelhouse, which is in the standup, and just show how much more technical he is on his feet and how much quicker he is a closing the gap.

Speaker 1:          01:09:07       I didn't have any staying long too, right? Yeah, and he's fighting a tall guy too. Yeah. If you think about it, if larkin's got the shorter arms, why is he going to sit there and want a box with a guy with longer arms? You've got to change your distance and the low kicks. Perfect work setup perfectly. Now back to. That's it. now, back to moitai and elbows. Don't you think that elbows are the. Well obviously they're really effective, you know, and elbows and elbows from the clinch and needs from the clench. Obviously you're really effective techniques. Why do you like rules that don't have those? I remember listening to your podcast and someone asked, I think you were talking about how you feel more tie is like the purest art of stand up fighting. I think it's. It makes sense. Yeah. I like all fighting.

Speaker 1:          01:09:53       I like mma, you know, obviously love it. I think mma is probably my favorite thing to watch, but what I like about moitai is when you're seeing the clench, your using all the potential weapons from inside that position. Whereas in kickboxinG they will separate you. It's just for me personally, why I don't like to clinch it slows the fight down. I'm not saying it's because you can be a crappy outside fighter but be so strong and dominant and the clinton winning all your fights in the clench. Right? So, I mean I think it's just a rule set and I mean each guy's going to be different from what they're good at or not good at. Um, and it's how you train, but you have to change your style. You have to change. Like even if I were to fight, we talked about kickboxing and mma.

Speaker 1:          01:10:40       You have to change your style, but even if you fight between kickboxing and muay thai, you have to change quite a bit. You have to stay longer. If you're a fighter like myself, who doesn't want to get into the clinch, you have to fight differently. You have to use triangle stepping in your foot work. You got to use more distance. You got to stay away. I could maybe only throw a a two or three hit combination before I have to exit and move again because I know he's going to try to grab me and cleanse me and you know, slice me up with his elbows. Is there a more difficult transItion, like do you think that the transition between kickboxing and muay thai is more difficult or the transition between more thai and kickboxing? Because we're seeing a lot of

Speaker 3:          01:11:14       moitai champions that are now entering into kickbox. I'm going to more tie more and more difficult. It's more difficult because you're adding all these new weapons so you're in all of a sudden now have these weapons that you're not used to wear with more. Tie your kind of take away some, but you still have your other weapons that are effective and it had this conversation with a lot of the more tie fighters. They were saying how you got to look at the success of more tIe fighters and kick with boxing. You have sit. A chai sits on, been on. who's a savage, he's the current lightweight champion fighters like sand chai, moitai legend came in and his first kickboxing fight dominated this young thai kid that just came in and France. I'm a pet panda maroon, can't move cow. He came in and just left, kicked one weapon, shut down a an aggressive punch to low kick, just one kick left, kick left, kick, left, kick.

Speaker 3:          01:12:09       And these guys have been fighting for so long. It's fighting to them. Fighting at the end of the day is still fighting. Um, so these thai guys and who were following traditional moitai are still being very successful and kickboxing and one of the basic workout you can dominated dog house is a great example of it. And still around to sanchez. Really interesting because he's a, she wants his glory for. Yes I did. Alright. he's fun to watch, man. Oh yeah. Tricky slipping. He'll fly. Big guys, small guys. He wanted to. he put a hole, a social media campaign to fight conor mcgregor in mma. Yeah, I think so. Does he know how to wrestle? No. No luck with all that. what's your thoughts on conor and floyd? That's a big thing right now. Could that even happen? Could it happen? Yeah. Floyd is a. I like again, the best defensive fighter ever and you know, I mean in a straight boxing match, you've got to give the advantage of him and just have to.

Speaker 3:          01:13:07       You have to. The traditional wisdom would say that he's gonna box connor's face off. That's true. You would look at it and you would look at what he's been able to do, but conner's a fucking freak man. He's a weird guy. He's got his mind is so fucking strong and he eats pressure. He just eats it. Like when he stepped into that ring with josie aldo, he looked like he didn't have a care in the world. You need that confidence and that belief men is just staggering and he had talked so much shit for so long and aldo was just fuming. He was steaming at the bank when he got in there, he was so emotionally invested in that fight. It was almost like he had never been disrespected like that and to be disrespected for months. I mean they had done this huge world tour where connor stole his belt at a press conference and was yelling at him and I mean it was madness.

Speaker 3:          01:13:59       And then to have the fight and then connor starches him with one punch 13 seconds into the fight. Like wow. Yeah. that, that, that stirred up a lot of attention. Obviously floyd is not jose aldo. Floyd is, you know, it's, it would be a boxing match in an mma match. Connor would fucking kill him for sure. Anyway, to kill him. He kicked it. shit wouldn't even flow. Would never get close to, um, conduct, kicked his fucking legs out from under them every time. Yeah. It would be, it would be brutal. But in a boxing match, one thing that connor's has got going for me, he said, way bigger guy. He's, I mean, I know he fought at 1:45, but jesus christ, he looked like a dead man when he made 45. His shoulders are broad, like he's. Yeah, he's walking around and one 70 ish somewhere around then.

Speaker 3:          01:14:44       And I don't think floyd is floyd is a smaller guy. And again, what you were saying about with kickboxing, I think the same holds true with boxing, that those fighters, they're not cutting the kind of weight that mma fighters are cutting. So I don't know what they would weigh in at. I would assume it'd probably be like 1:55 somewhere around there. And then once they got into the octagon or the ring rather, it would be a boxing match. Floyd would probably have a disadvantage weight-wise of somewhere around 15 pounds. Yeah. No, I can't see it happening. But if they did, floyd look canelo had a big weight advantage over him in that fight too. And floyd shut that shit down. You know, he's just, he's so good at boxing, man. he's just so good. He's so grateful. The more I follow and train and learn boxing I something I wish I started a lot earlier on in my career.

Speaker 3:          01:15:31       It's men, it's like you only have two weapons, you know, and you all of a sudden have to make this complex strategy through, you know, creating openings and with kicks you have a whole other dimension. Elbows, clinic. But with boxing man he got two fists that you have to make land. It's tough and I get why it's called the sweet science. Now when you are training, are you sparring a right? Yeah, I do, but I make sure I spar with the right guys and that kind of thing, but I still do spar. And are you worried at all about getting hit when you're doing this? Yes and no. Yes. And they just love it too much. I just love it man. I just, I'm not stupid. And that's the last thing you could ever call me. I do everything very calculated, very smart. So if I know there's an issue, I slow it down or if there's an aggressive guy but I still spar and I still start very controlled and I could pick it up if I want.

Speaker 3:          01:16:20       It's just why was the question. Sometimes I don't need to get in there and have those sparring matches where I'm trying to take the guy's head off. It just doesn't make any sense. Well the obviously the consequences for you are so much more obvious and intense, you know, knowing what you've been through. I mean is that in the back of your head at all while you're doing it sometimes. What's, what's your take on these fighters taking a new approach on a not sparring anymore? Well, donald cerrone is taken that approach and it seems really effective for him, but I think part of what's doing well for him. I mean obviously he has excellent timing. Obviously he's very experienced as a fighter already and he likes to stay active, but his take on it was that he was beating himself up too much in the gym.

Speaker 3:          01:17:03       Then he was firing too many hard rounds and he would go into these fights already damaged. He just couldn't take shots. Well, that's the philosophy and moitai. They don't really spar hard in in Thailand because they fight very often too, but if you're not fighting very often, would you need that sparring? It's a good question. I think their spa, there's stupid sparring and then there's quality sparring. I think there's so many different ways to spar. If you're constantly going in there and you're trying to slug it out and getting sloppy, that's not good sparring. Right, so you can get a good guy. That kind of really sets his shots up really good. Goes hard to the body and low kicks. When I spar, my guys were trying to take each other out with body shots and low kicks, like if I finished my training partner to the body, I feel like the king.

Speaker 3:          01:17:44       You know what I mean? I walk around and just like walking, like I owned the place mat to the body, to the body, low kicks. Those are okay, but you don't need to finish guys to the head inspiring. That's the dutch way, right? They go 100 percent of the legs into the bottom. Speaking to some of the dutch guys like jason wellness, who's fighting. His coach was telling me they do somewhere along the lines of 50 rounds of sparring a week. Jesus christ. Yeah. That's a lot like, again, I don't know how intense are the types of shots, but they rely a lot on sparring. Well, wildernesses fight with simon marcus. What a fight. That was jesus christ. That was an amazing fight. And simon marcus looks so fucking good in the beginning of first. Oh my god, he was just exploding, but it seemed like he drained his gas tank and got too cocky with that head movement.

Speaker 3:          01:18:32       Yeah. What was that about? Like he, he at one point in the fight, like almost like invited him to punch him and just kind of moved his head a little bit and then they gave him a count for that too. Yeah. And then I don't, I wouldn't have called that one account, but the referee did a good stop on that. Wellness was just unloading. Well, it definitely under stoppage, but it seemed like when they gave my account, maybe the referee was seeing some shit we weren't seeing because it seemed like simon, like from that point on started to wither. Yeah, that was crazy. Because you look how good he looked at the beginning of that fight. He was blasting those kicks in. It's like jesus and he was fucking going for it, man. Which is when you look at simon, he's so shredded a specimen and his style is so predicated on that.

Speaker 3:          01:19:18       We're reliant on that. He's just yells In the ring, like, yeah, yeah, intense. But he just couldn't keep it up. Man. Couldn't keep that pace up, but this is why I liked this fight with tanya. Did you ever see Israel stuff? They call the style of vendor? Yeah. is all low. Like wicked. He's throwing the low line technical good distance control southpaw, orthodox spin kick boxes. He's good. He's a paper. That is the style to beat that dutch style. Straightforward fighting. Right? And you want to fight on angles. Use distance, use movement. Where how do you beat someone like style bender? Constant pressure. You know, head to head fighting, low kicks, so you're going to see wilderness, try to use that head to head pressure fighting like we saw with me and Raymond Daniels versus I decided to try to use movement on the outside, pick his shots, fight on angles.

Speaker 3:          01:20:10       So on paper. both of these guys have the style to beat one another. I think that's why that fights super exciting for me to watch. Well a style bender has been toying with the idea of fighting and mma to and I'm really interested to know and I'm toying with the idea of fighting the ufc I should say, and I'm really wanted to see like how he manages training and competing in both sports because that was a giant issue with joe schilling. You know, joe schilling was trying to do both little time when he just decided that, you know, it's just not really smart and wasn't. He wasn't able to fight to his best ability in mma. No. Too many limits, you know, and you don't have much time. He's in his thirties, you know, how much time is there in a day? How much time is there in your life?

Speaker 3:          01:20:55       I mean, if you want to be excellent at one thing, it's a lot. That's why if you're a real perfectionist and it. It's tough. Yeah. And you have to be okay with not being excellent at everything. Yeah. And that's a hard concept for martial artist and an athlete to be like, hey look, you know, you're striking is just going to be okay, but we gotta work on your ground, so don't worry about your striking now there's only so much time in a day you can do training. That's a really interesting thing that you just said. You have to be really okay at that because like if you do jujitsu, you're gonna get strangled by black belts, but you go, well, if we were kickbox I'd fuck that dude up. Exactly. And you have to have that in your head. But then again, you know, if you're doing kickbox and with a guy like bull cow, you know, like, well, you know, you're not as good as him.

Speaker 3:          01:21:37       I kicked butt. I'm fucking take his ass down and can't keep gotta be okay with it. Well, that was one of the things that george was so amazing at. St pierre was so amazing at being able to do whatever he wanted to. Dependent upon what you thought he was going to do. Oh, he was definitely above average and everything. But you put george st pierre and a kickboxing fight. Yeah, it wouldn't be. Would it be the best? But I mean, he's great. He's phenomenal at everything else. Well, I think that's what made him so dominant. He's above average on everything. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And also incredibly unpredictable and creative. That was one of the best things. One of the most athletic guys I've seen in the sport. Yeah. He's a really interesting case too because george didn't really wrestle competitively in college or in high school.

Speaker 3:          01:22:20       He learned wrestling from a bunch of russian nationals in montreal, which could be good. you lose a lot of those things that aren't needed. Yeah. Well george is also, he's so humble, like as confident as he was as a champion and as a dominant champion. He's so humble. Like you could teach george things and he would just completely absorbed, but he would never, you know, he wasn't the type of guy that would have a hard time learning new things. He was very open to stuff because I always follow him on social media and stuff and I hope that I'm actually trying to get out to tristar was talking to for us a little bit. I would love to go out there and train with their team and to see if you know how we can, you know, connect together. I think that'd be an awesome connection.

Speaker 3:          01:23:02       It would be awesome. I think he's still gonna fight. I mean he still still talk to you. What? I heard that that's what I hit up for us. We're like, hey man, like shit. Call me in man. Let me, let me help you guys to take me in. I got to do some work with gsp. When he did that kickboxer vengeance movie and it was cool because he came in and is like a never met george in my life at this point is like both illini. I'm a fan of yours. I watched, I watched you fight Raymond Daniels. I was like, what? And so for him, because he's like, he comes from a karate background. So for him to say that he liked my style and he was a fan of mine from my Raymond Daniels fire, I was like, shit, this is awesome. they brought Raymond Daniels in to prepare Roy Mcdonald.

Speaker 3:          01:23:41       That's right. Then I think even gsp went to daniel's fight. belvoir kickboxing. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. Yeah. Well that's another good thing too that bella is holding those really high level kickboxing bouts to Kevin Ross was over there and he's been doing well. Guess who's now gonna fight. He's gonna fight him. And I saw that I was actuallY talking to their coach that I was like, man, we got to get gasoline and you, uh, he'd be good in the ufc, but if we get them on gloria, I think he needs a good platform to really grow and be consistent with it. I think he'd be a perfect fit for glorY. I mean as far as like a coverage and is falling. he gets that full time attention and who knows, we'll see how good he is in mma. Is he jUst a phenomenal striker trying to test himself in mma?

Speaker 3:          01:24:26       How was this ground skills? I don't know. I know he can wrestle. I know he's a good wrestler, but like at a professional wrestling level, like ready to go kind of stuff. It's hard to say because what I'm hearing is from just guys who trained with them and guys who trained mma with them, they're surprised at how good his wrestling is. Like he's just a really strong athletic guy. Learned quick but his moitai so obviously very, very good. Very high elbows. I see the spinning elbow telling guys in line flight with him, but he'd be perfect for glory. Yeah. Now, do you, do you follow all these other organizations you followed by working? Boxing? I follow it. I follow all fighting as much as I can. Now when you watch, um, like say if you watch lion fight or your watch bella tour any of these other organizations, do you like make notes?

Speaker 3:          01:25:15       Like, oh, I don't like to see this guy over in glory. I do, I try to hit it out and I try to hit that out. What is a glorious plans? I mean, I know you said that they have amazing and they're going to be split between, um, we got some good uhm, uhm, investors in glory from China, so we're going to actually try to get a few shows out in China. Uh, we're looking at south America, um, and then the rest mixed between the us and europe. That's awesome. Yay. Team shows and this is the first time that glory is coming out and saying, listen, there's 18 shows in our december collision show. We got to announce glory la. We've got that. We're going to go to chicago next. so we're having that time to show everyone that, hey man, there's two or three shows coming up. Here's to prepare and plan

Speaker 2:          01:26:04       because when you don't have that funding all the time, it's kind of hard to have those multiple events and have that time to build up the shows properly. And now that we have. And I think the sports just going to go crazy. I hope so man. I really do. And I think it's awesome. They're going to have more than one a month. I mean, that's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. We'll need consistency one a month plus six more. That's, that's amazing. I mean, you know, every other month they're going to have two events then that's what we want. Incredible. That's really good. And like as far as coverage, I know you guys are on ufc fight pass. It's also sometimes on espn, espn three and sometimes we get espn to live so it's all depending, but I'm hoping we can get on. That's a huge step because we started off on spike tv.

Speaker 2:          01:26:48       Um, and then when, which was great, it was okay. I was going, well it was great for me. I could watch it. But then what was happening was when we went to espn, it's just a whole different market now. If we want to hit those casual fans, espn is going to be the place to do it. Yes. Yeah, for sure. the espn three, those weird. We need to get it when we're on live onto it seems to do well, but we just kinda keep it, keep it going. Now what are they going to do with rico and butter? Because the rico verhoeven, badr hari five was probably one of the most most hyped up heavyweight fights of 13,000 people. Nuts wasn't really like when badr hari is in the building, like people know he's a superstar. Yes. Like he doesn't even have to fight and he's a superstar and it was in a uber house in Germany, which is where borders, holland.

Speaker 2:          01:27:36       So all the hall fans, a lot of the dutch moroccans came and when he came out crazy people were just going nuts trying to rush and get him. He's a superstar sell to it needs fights like that and it's kinda like that conor mcgregor, he builds that energy around him that people just need to tune into. And I think that's what bothered does. So that rematch is going to be crazy. So I think rico was going to go fight. He has some other fights that he has to fight. There's contender tournaments that a winter. He gets the fight, like he has a fight with ishmael launch planned. I think if you watch collision, there's ben jamal sadeek who was at big monster heavyweight. He's looking good. You have guys like jafar wellness who are doing really well. Benjamin addict boy, so there's so many fights for ricoh and I think bob is going to be once he heals up and then maybe they'll do another one next year, but nothing planned right now.

Speaker 2:          01:28:27       You just got to be another fight has to happen. But I mean how long does it take before I can be back in action? He had a broken forearm. Is that what happened? He tore a ligament, but that's what it was. I think it was a torn ligament. Huh. And it's trying to. I've re watched it a few times trying to see where in the fight had happened and it's, it's very tough to actually see where it happened. but apparently he tore a ligament in his form and it just wasn't working. Right. You can tell he looked down on because it didn't look like trying to find it. There was no real time where the damage happened. Were you seen him do it? I don't know. It's weird, but I think it is somewhere must've torn and he

Speaker 3:          01:29:01       just couldn't take the pain anymore. god, I was so weird, but it was interesting because bought or who's just a notorious psycho came out in the first round, pretty controlled and measured, you know, and, and approach the fIght intelligently to said no, we're going to do three rounds. I haven't been fighting a long time. I don't want a five round fight. I want a three round fight. Didn't care about the title. Yeah, it wasn't for the world title. I think what he wanted to do was have this three rounder than let them meet again for the five rounds. So if it's a torn tendon or ligament rather, that is a much more invasive issue. Right. That's a long and I haven't really gotten an update. I'll try to find out for us. Usually ligaments take a long time to heal, like the maybe even need surgery or something like that.

Speaker 3:          01:29:48       And if that's the case, you might be out a year. Unfortunately, that indeed that fight needs to happen. We need to get more people. We need to get more people on and that's what got everyone hyped. Yeah. Got everyone excited about kickboxing again, potter such a personality, you know, that's the kindness use of that word. Personality ever. Just going to keep them out of jail between now and the next fight, post fIght interview. He goes to rico and he looked at him and he said, you know what? You did good, you did good, but next time and knock you the fuck out. and everyone was like, holy shit, like already that the next fights already hyped up even after the loss of were like, yeah, this is what this sport needs. Let's get attention. And I keep trying to say, and I came out publicly a little bit, um, a little while ago.

Speaker 3:          01:30:31       Fighters need to, in the kickboxing world need to do more to promote themselves. They can't constantly rely on glory or other people to kind of promote them. They got to go oUt there and really try to build themselves. And the more they build themselves, the more the sport's going to build. Yeah. I, I completely agree. It's just so hard For fighters to figure out how to promote themselves. It's hard enough to be a great fighter. It's hard enough to train hard and get in shape and fight smart and to, to, you know, Concentrate on social media too and you see a lot of fails, a lot, a lot of fake, like fake trash talking and it just comes out and clunky and terrible. But then there's, you know, there's always these guys lIke connor that do it and you just go, jesus, he's so effortless with it, eh?

Speaker 3:          01:31:13       But that sales sign in. Yes. But that's their personality, you know? It just happens naturally. Yeah. It sure. Everyone would love to be connor. Right? Just fun and people can. Yeah. I mean, look, he's got floyd mayweather saying that that's the only fight that he's interested in. He, jamie, me. what the hell's going on with that thing up there? Started doing that. I think it's like resetting itself. I can't. Is it youtube? I'm not controlling it right now. I don't know whether the tv like, oh, the tv's whacking. Oh wow. TUrn it oFf and reset it. Okay. BeCause I wanted to see that, um, the other fight that you were telling me about the highlight reel. Oh, with. Yes. Yes. That's a wicked one. Yeah. Just. Yeah. And it's a little clip of just me throwing different combinations and then using that big elbow. It's on youtube. Veldt delaney versus many baghdad. We'll, we'll put that up and

Speaker 2:          01:32:00       we'll talk about that too. So right now you are a hundred percent commentating on gloria. you're taking some time off my teaching job of your high school teaching. So what dId your days look like? Right now it's just me training again and I feel I want to get back into, uM, the first time I, I want to try doing different things. Like my body needs to be stretched out a little bit. The years of damaGe on my joints. I want to start doing more yoga. I'm going to try some yoga out. I want to do, um, I want to create a kickboxing professional kickboxing program for other pros to come in and have daytIme training and stuff like that. There's lots of things. So this whole fight was all about different and he's good. He's doing pretty well in the ufc I think, isn't he? He's not. He's a tough guy. That's such a gorgeous combination man. That left hook to the body and the low kick that arnesto who's combinAtion? He's another one of my all time favorite. He's my. He's my favorite. God is so good. There was one highlight that he has on that. I literally watChed probably a million times.

Speaker 2:          01:33:07       Why is he, why does he cheer and end? Because he couldn't take the low kicks anymore. So it was his way of hyping it up. Yeah. You'll see the elbow soon. This one right here. See that elbow? Watch what happened. Wow. Gash right away. Huh? It's so slice it. That's all you really through was at down downward elbow. Wow. That is a fucking gas. Basically. Only hit me with that shot. And that was in the fourth round. Wow. And we worried about the fight getting stopped here and I probably should have stopped it. Really a that. But I mean I was. okay. And as a fighter, you're never going to say stop the fight. Right. But probably looking back and then right away I just come back and say, you know what, let me give you that leg. was the blood going into your eyes at this point? A little bit. I remember it. And this was in three d apparently, that they filmed it and literally. Yeah, I dunno. So I would have loved to have seen it as a gash. That's not even the big ones. Big ones in my head that you can't even see on top. Yeah, it's just right through the hairline

Speaker 2:          01:34:07       that it's such a nasty combination, man.

Speaker 2:          01:34:11       Yeah. But he basically hit me with two elbows, the whole fight. That's crazy. Two gases. Every time he did well you can't even see the scar man. You got a good plastic surgeon. The back stage doctor, that's his face. When he started cUtting my starting to stitch, it was like I was making all these faces like, oh man, I don't want to know that a doctor was making a face like that. What kind of fucking dog? That's ridiculous. That's crazy man. So do you have any desire to compete again? Are you sure? Do you, have you figured your path out from here on out? Gloria has been too good, man. I've been loving this commentary gig. It's a new challenge. It's um, it's new. So for me, I have a for this the first time, even when I won my world title, I work during the day as a teacher, eat my lunch as I drove the gym and then I would train at night.

Speaker 2:          01:34:59       I won a world title working a fUlltime job. Wow. Because it just, at that point there wasn't enough. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm used to a certain type of living and I don't want to have to fight to survive. And my whole thing was I'm going to use fighting to build it as a platform. So now you know, because I have a university education, I'm able to have a commentary job, I'm able to run my own gym, I'm able to have other things going on. So I was very lucky to build a good platform that I didn't have to rely on fighting for my income. So right now things are too good, there's more money on the sitting in a suit and you know, trying to be joe rogan. So I mean it's more money, it's better on my health and so enjoying and loving it, genuinely loving it.

Speaker 2:          01:35:45       What was your education in health and physical education? That's interesting. So when you look at a training methods like some of the methods that are being employed today, some of the varIous strength and conditioning methods, what do you, uh, is there anything that you think that really stands out? Well, the main thing for me is guys in combat sports are using crossfit as a form of weight training for fighting. I don't necessarily agree with that based on many tHings because they're doing an uh, an unsafe exercise like a dead lift or a clean and you're doing it over time where those movements are made to develop power, hip strength, you know, they're not meant for endurance. Um, so a lot of guys are hurting themselves. Like I'm seeing. I saw some crossfit guys and they're doing this terrible rounded back dead lifts and they're just trying to get the bar up and wait and they're hurting themselves.

Speaker 2:          01:36:39       They're doing too much. Uh, but uh, sports specific, properly tailored strength program is very important, but crossfitting is just killing guys their body. The damage on the joints, it wasn't made to be help you enhance. There's different ways to do it in a safer way that helps protect your body. Too many people are canceling flights with injuries. I think they overtrain they're doing things that, you know, things like crossfit where they're constantly killing their bodies. It's interesting because some people think that, you know, fighters or overtraining and some people think no, the problem is they just haven't built themselves up to the point where they can do this the way they move or training. Then you thInk it's overture overtraining now. When you were fighting, what did you do? Any kind of strength and conditioning? I was huge on. It was very big on it.

Speaker 2:          01:37:27       I was very. It's very, it's, it's very complex. It's very difficult to explain, but in in, in a, in a short term, it's like you have to. It's a periodization, so right after my fight I would go into a hypertrophy phase where I tried to build myself because during your camp you're losing weight, you're trying to break down muscle because you're constantly training, you're not eating as much. So I would go through a hypertrophy phase, which is building get biggest strong as I possibly can, closer to fight time. I build that muscle into more explosive power. So that's when I start doing. Instead of high volume reps, I'm starting to kind of lower my rep count. I'll do five sets of five on squat, I'm, I'll do dead lifts to five. And it's now translating that muscle and that size into power. From there, you got to get the power phase turns into more of an explosive phase.

Speaker 2:          01:38:18       So I start turning that power into that explosive. So I'll start doing med ball throws, explosive jumping, um, I'll, I'll box squat instead of a regular squat. And even when your in that hypertrophy phase and when you're building muscle, the whole point is to break your body down so you're sore. Everyone knows how sore and how shitty they feel. Twenty four to 48 hours after a workout and that's good because your body's breaking down and has to get stronger. But when you have, when your goal is to fight and be good at your sport, you can have that soreness because it's going to take away from your training. So that's why we really have to period eyes our training to make sure we can peek on fight night. There's a lot of talk in an amazing circles. That strength and conditioning is the most important thing that once you're in camp, that's what you should concentrate on, is your cardio, your endurance, and that your fight skills actually come in secondary because you already know how to fight. There's some people that believe that what you need to do is work on your fight skills and all the other time, not that you abandoned them, but that they take second place and that the most important thing is having a phenomenal gas tank.

Speaker 2:          01:39:27       I don't know aboUt that. I think fighting, you have to constantly are fighting, so you have to fight. You have to practice what you're doing. Do you think they'll. I think the most important is your mind to mind. The mind is number one, did you. Did you involve yourself in any sort of mental training? Do you? I just. I was naturally gifted with it. I was naturally had the ability to be able to block things out. It could have been my years of sports background, but men come fight time. I barely even thought of the fight. People are like, oh, you're, you're going to Japan next week to fight two fights in one night. I like, yeah, okay. I'll deal with it when I have to get there kind of thing. I put my work in. The more you stress about it, the more you released the cortisone, more that your body breaks itself down, the more stressed you get, the less sleep you are going to have.

Speaker 2:          01:40:10       All terrible shit when you're fighting in a few days. Right? So my whole strategy was just to say I do my work and the problem with you said about overtraining and guys fight. Then they party. They eat like shit. They constantly don't focus on fighting the k you're fighting in eight weeks. Then they go, oh shit, I got to do a crash course and get up to shape. And then they overtake. A true martial artist is it doesn't look at the fight. I'm on a flight basis. It looks as a longevity. I'm looking at, okay, for this fight, yeah, my boxing might improve a little bit, but I have to improve something else. And there's constantly improvements in all areas. So yukon, as soon as you're done your fight. YeAh, it's healthy to take a week or two off. Some guys three weeks depending on the damage you had, but you got to get working again.

Speaker 2:          01:40:58       You got to get back to sharpening your tools, your weapons, your mind. You got to get back into it and constantly trying to. You got to learn 24 slash seven. I don't agree with guys who think they can just train for camps. Camps on a real fighter, a real athlete, a real martial artist is going to train all year round. You have to look at it also in terms of you're involved in one of the most dangerous pursuits athletically than someone can engage in and anytime that you're getting better is going to take away some damage that you could possibly sustain. It's going to make you better at aDministering damage. It's going to make you better. It's just a matter of staying the course anD being disciplined to work it and I mean intensity changes. You're not going to be right after your fight. You're not going to bE training at that heart intensity that you are, that you were before the fight, but it's still important to constantly training and constantly improve.

Speaker 2:          01:41:52       Now when you say that you were kind of naturally good at it, mentally, no one coached you into how to relax about you just kind of instinctively knew that work. I knew I had to do it. I knew I had to do it. Like for me especially, I wasn't fighting guys with my level of experience. Like you're like, hey, my first fight with glory, I fought a legend in the sport. Morat derechos and they will. Glory signed me right after that fight. We watched with many baghdad. I got an email from a random guy at this point and now friends with them, but it's like, hey, I can get you find some bullshit. Everybody can get me fights, and then I sent them like, yeah, here's my manager. Go off, and then they're like, hey, yeah, we want to sign you to glory. Just like a few hours before that many bag, that fight.

Speaker 2:          01:42:35       I was like, ah, wicked, because this was what I wanted. right. My dreAms here. So like, oh, your first fight is against morat directly and Turkey. I was like, okay. I never really the same morat direct you that I think it is. So I looked it up with. It's the same guy. He had like 90 flights. It was my seventh in his hometown, you know, I'm going to press conferences with goal, can saki, daniel guida, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, I have six professional fights and all the turkish cameras are all around us and I didn't know what was going on, but I was confident in myself. I believed in myself. I knew I had the skill to do it. I looked at my coach and we can I beat this guy and yeah, you'll kill him. Was like, cool, let's do it.

Speaker 2:          01:43:15       And then at that point I just had that much confidence and belief in myself that nothing mattered. Now when you, when you go into a fight like that and you approach a fight like that and you're saying that these guys had so much more experience than you, so you had to almost approach the fight as a more experienced fighter. Yeah. And I did you. My whole thing was I knew what I was really good at and I couldn't. With someone with a hundred fights, you're so comfortable in there and if I play that relaxed fighting game with them, it's not a good luck. There are better at picking their shots probably. I'd still probably beat that. I'm not going to say that, but before the fight I'm go, I'm, I'm going to make them fight my fight. If I fight their fight, there's a good chance they're going to beat me.

Speaker 2:          01:43:57       So I went in and basically you have to fight this fight in order to beat me. And this was my strength that was stronger than most of the guys that fought because that's a good strength and conditioning program. My, uh, actually who's outside cost, the client analyst, he was a strength and conditioning coach for the toronto maple leafs in Canada. So he knew a lot. He was amazing. So I was the strongest guy that I've ever. I haven't seen anyone who's really stronger than me in the ring. So I went in there and I fought my fight. Good coaching, paul minaz, good coaching. So everything was just on point for me. Now, do you do any visualization? Did you do any, any sort of meditation? Truly nothing planned. We'd just be driving my car and I'm thinking about how it feels to win and how I'm going to win and it just happened naturally and then I kind of blocked it off where I didn't even think about it.

Speaker 2:          01:44:44       The last thing you want to do is go to your bed at night and think about a fight. It's terrible, isn't it? You're like, oh shit, what if I get knocked out? Oh man, everyone's watching me who's watching this? And again, it gets scary. So you got to learn to be able to block it off. And I think that's where my teaching job helped a little bit because when I was in my teaching job, I really didn't think of the fight. I was like, oh, I'll deal with it after. Because it's fighting is a lot of stress. A lot of guys can handle it and there's a lot of guys you see on pads that are incredible. These guys could whip pads, kicks punches. One of the most beautiful display of technique on pads, you put them in the ring, they just don't have it mentally.

Speaker 2:          01:45:21       Too much anxiety, too much stress. They just can't handle that pressure, so that's one of the biggest parts is having that confidence in yourself in that mindset. I wanted to go back to a war we're talking about with strength and conditioning or like I said, there's a philosophy that many are taking an mma that the strength conditioning is more important during fight camp than actual fight training itself. This is about mma though. Do you think that maybe the physical requirements of fighting five minute rounds and you know a lot of the grappling and clenching, which is just unbelievably grueling on your body. Do you think that that's that there's different physical requirements and that sport mayBe then kickboxing? I think it's just different, right? It's just different. you need that different. If I were to to roll one minute in jujitsu, I probably be gassed out like I wrestled around sometimes just as a joke and and stuff.

Speaker 2:          01:46:09       I actually, the father of my niece, nephew is one of the pioneers in Canada, have a brazilian jujitsu, I don't know, richard, monkey nana, and he's just been around it my whole life and my role for one minute I'm gassed, you know, I can't do it, but if I, if they kick box with me for one minute, they can't handle it either. Right. So it's just what you prepare for. If you're that marathon runner and you try to swim five lanes in the pool, you're done totally different energy systems. But I have to say mma is different demands on the body. It's a totally different demand on the body. You need to be able to wrestle and then stand up and be explosive, which is really difficult to do. Do you

Speaker 1:          01:46:50       foresee yourself getting involved Any more deeply and mma fighters? I would love to. I just waiting for a guy. I'm not that guy that's going to really go out there. And thiS is george st pierre obviously, but uh, I'm hoping to one day obviously have a build, a good group of guys who were fighting in the ufc. So what would love to have that, that's the, the ultimate goal is to be able to impart your knowledge on some webinars coming up for sure. And especially at the gym now. I've been loving it and loving it and it seemed a lot of those ufc guys now or hopefully seeing all these videos and these drills that I'm posting and what it can have to offer and if you could. There's so many times I watched the ufc, like if this guy had a little bit of, you know me coaching him and I'm sure they have great coaches but you know, they just need that little extra.

Speaker 1:          01:47:36       I know what you're saying and I think this is also such a cool time for fighters to be able to hear these words from guys like you and to be able to easily access those videos that you're putting up and all these striking breakdowns that guys like lawrence kenshin are putting up and all these other people. I mean it's an amazing time and as far as like the amount of information that you can get for fighters and people have to use it. Yeah. And it's a lot of pride too, right? It's, it's tough sometimes, like even with a lot of the fighters that I approached and I give tips to when you're at a higher level, you think you know everything. And that's kind of like you said, george was very humble that way where he can kind of allow and accept knowledge. I think that's important.

Speaker 1:          01:48:15       A lot of guys can't. They think they're just, they know and everything. And that's terrible mindset. I think you're totally right. And I think that there's no way like what you were saying about if you want to be a very good mma fighter, there's no way you're going to be the best at everything. It's impossible. So when you got a guy like george, uh, you know, one of the beautiful things about him was that he was aware of where his limitations lie. He was aware of where his strengths were and he, he knew how to put it all together. I always talk about fighting as if like, it's a language because I think that, you know, a lot of people know how to use words. A lot of people know what the words are, but can you string them together eloquently and that's one of the things that I see like when I'm watching that fight with many baghdad, when you throw in that combination left hook to the body low kick, it's like it's a beautiful flowing sentence and a lot of ways you're expressing yourself in that.

Speaker 1:          01:49:07       A good way of putting it, because I was talking to someone, I think it was matt embry today. I did fight or interviews before I came, so a lot of their things they were saying are fresh in my mind, but he was saying it's like it's human nature. Everyone knows what fighting is. You can really watch two guys and now you can say who's winning? Who did more damage. You can see it. So it's like looking at the words on the page, but once you know how to read, it becomes a totally different game. it's not just words on a page anymore. Yeah, it's good way of putting it. Yeah. It's um, it's a beautiful thing man. It really is. Fighting is like nothing else. I mean, it's so heartbreaking when you, someone get devastated and smash like bj penn did against the air rodriguez, but on the other hand, so beautiful when you see what your year was able to do to a legend like bj penn.

Speaker 1:          01:49:56       I mean, it's such a fighting and all forms, whether it's boxing, like thai kickboxing, mma. It's to me one of the most engaging things for someone to watch. Would you want to fight in the ufc if you could? No, no. First of all, I'm oldest. Fuck. But in your prime, if I was competing still when the ufc was around, I probably would've done something. But also when the ufc first came around, it was like one weight class and you know, when I stopped fighting was in 1989. That was the last kickboxing fight that I had and that was um, there was nothing and there was no money in it and I was getting headaches too, just from sparring. And I did not spar smart. I sparred meathead style and you know, I just, I know a lot more today than I ever did them as far as consequences.

Speaker 1:          01:50:45       And what's important and how to learn better, you know, which I think is how knowing how to be. I was good at being obsessed with things and really like just just focusing on them constantly all the time. But it was more frantic and frenetic. It wasn't like calculated and intelligent. It's like crashing in and learn and just being obsessed is constantly training all day, all the day. But I think that, you know, one of the things that we're knowing we're learning now is the right way to learn. Like you were saying that so many fighters are overtrained, you know, and uh, that so many fighters to spar too hard and they, you know, a lot of like what you're saying, people think that hitting the pads and getting tired as good work. It's tough though because when you have a fighter's mentality, you gotta think it's easy to be outside.

Speaker 1:          01:51:32       And I could say it because I've been in it, but when someone on the outside says, oh, these guys, you know, they need to train harder. They need to keep doing more and more and more. And when you fight and you're like, shit, I kind of fight in three weeks. you never think your conditioning is good enough. You could train everyday, all day, put your best effort and you never going to think you're conditioning is good enough. You're going to be like the day before the fight, you've done everything possible in your training. You're going to go on and you're going to second guess your conditioning. You're going to wonder if you did it enough. You're going to wonder, shit, I should have trained now. Why didn't I? My sunday rest? That should have been training. I shouldn't be getting better. But really you have to get in that Mindset that you know, you don't need More All the time.

Speaker 1:          01:52:10       And that's why guys are getting injured. They're putting their bodies, they're not letting themselves rest and they're getting sick. I bet you if you go on, uh, in, in one of your ufc shows, and you ask every fighter on that card who's sick, I bet you 50 percent would be sick with some sort of cold or infection or a sinus infection. Most of those guys are probably sick because their immune system is crashed from not eating constantly. Training stress, not sleeping like I bet you more than half are sick with something. Absolutely. I'm sure. I was always sick before taekwondo tournaments and sinuses. For me, every fight I had a sinus infection

Speaker 2:          01:52:46       and I was even smart about my training. I still got sinus infections. Did you monitor your heart rate? Do you? Did you wake up in the morning and just never really did that? It's one of the things that steve maxwell told me he said was very important to find out where you're at. He goes, when you're in shape goes find out what your resting heart rate is measured in the morning and if you wake up in the morning and it's five to 10 beats over, what it normally is, take the day off is if your body's fighting something off and you probably won't even think that you just got to push through, but when you push through in those exit where that's when you break yourself down. It's that balance between being intelligent and being tough, being disciplined, but also being like calculated and that's where I think your team is very important.

Speaker 2:          01:53:27       You have to have someone like, um, I had it in my camp, but if you look at for, for us, and tristar will use that as an example. He monitors everything, so he probably looks at george and says, you know, george, you're a little off today. Like from the way george comes in, he probably knows already. How's his mood? Is he, is he angry right now? Is he cranky? Is a snappy with his words like what's he doing? You know, because you've been around the fighter so long that it's there. Like my coach will say, okay, it's time to take the day off. I was like, no, no, no. I'm going to train them as they take the day off and then I'll take a day off and come back and I'm beasting it in the gym the next day where I would have just continually beat down my body and never really recovered and got better.

Speaker 2:          01:54:06       Right. Let's do it. like you woulD come in and you'd feel kind of flat, you'd be like, fuck this, I got to push thRough this. Yeah. Well sometimes it's important to push through it, but other times when you know you're at that level, it's like, hey, you got to pull yourself back. See that's the crazy thing about fighting and training and learning and fucks with your mind. Yeah, I mean it's such a way you might be able to do it and pull it off and it might not be the right way, but it might be successful until you do it that way every time. I mean, I've had finders telling me there's no such thing as over training and I'm like, well that's crazy because it's definitely. You're not training hard enough. Well, there's definitely such a thing as overtraining is, but a lot of guys have done it.

Speaker 2:          01:54:41       If you're constantly steady with your training, you're not training. Right? You better be getting yourself to the point in your training. Everyone was asking me, I trained once a day and usually once a day I never. And saturdays I would train twice, but the morning was a strength, a strength training. And then the night was kickbox. And now when you say strength training, like what did that involve? Well, I would, I would do my mind depending on the day, I would do a push day, a pull down a lower body day. So lifting weights, lifting weights, yeah, strength. They was always lifting weights and I used weight training. So for example, I would kick box like monday and tuesday, just once a day, but that hour and a half session I left everything. when I hit the bag I couldn't hit 10 rounds of bag because after round three I'm gassed.

Speaker 2:          01:55:27       I'm putting all my force, all my energy. I'm training for a nine minute fight. I'm not training for a marathon. So you need to train the proper energy system in order to be the most successful. and that's kind of that anaerobic system of constantly pushing yourself, letting yourself recover yourself, letting yourself recover. If I'm constantly, that's why I never ran a day in my career. You never ran. Never ran a day in my career. Wow. I did not hit the road a day in my career. Wow. That's shocking to a lot of people. Me included. Everyone's. Everyone who hears. It's like, you're nuts. You're crazy. I said, why give me one good reason why I can give you one is if you need that time to reflect, if you need that time to mentally prepare yourself, but what Does it do for you in the fight?

Speaker 2:          01:56:12       are you ever going to run 10 k in a fight? No, it's a sprint. So you see sprinters, I, you know, usain boLt doing take 10 k runs every morning. He might do it to loosen up and stay relaxed, but there's other ways of doing it. You've mentioned it on your podcast shadowboxing. Instead of going for a 10 k run shadow box for 20 minutes, you go into the ring and shadowbox envision your opponent. I'm fighting Raymond Daniels. I'm going to press your fight, Raymond Daniels. So I'm going to shadow box for 20 minutes in the ring. Like, um, pressure fighting, Raymond Daniels. I mentally focusing myself. I am using the right energy system because I can pick up my intensity as much as I want. If I'm. If I just want to stay loose, I just won't punch. I might not even punch. I might just use my footwork within the ring to kind of just set my mind, set my feet.

Speaker 2:          01:57:02       but there's so many different ways you can skip. You can, you know. Sometimes I do light training on the bag. I'll do some light rounds on different bags just to warm uP my hands and my body and that kinda thing, but I never ran too much damage. You're, you're running shin splints, the damage on your joints and it didn't hit the energy system. You hit in fighting, so why do it? That's really interesting because you always had a very high output work output when your fights and you had very good endurance in your fights. Everyone thought there was a secret. I said I trained hard and an hour and a half. I trained hard. When I hit the bag, I hit the bag. I wasn't looking around at the time looking at how much time's left on the clock. I, I hit the bag if I knew I was doing, if I was working something technical, they're drilling.

Speaker 2:          01:57:48       It's different, but when it's time to work, you got to put the work in you gotta be able to cut out all those distractions that you have and it doesn't matter what you have to do after. It doesn't matter what's going on in your day. If your girlfriend or boyfriend broke up with you or whatever the frick it is, you got to be focused and you have an hour and a half to do it. Now, when you see mma fighters that are putting in two a days on a regular, sometimes three, what do you. What do you think of that? I think it's okay if you're doing it right. I mean you mma, there's more things happening, right? So if you're doing a role in the morning, you know it's okay, but you're not going to go the hardest role you have and then hit the hardest strength and conditioning you have, and then at night do your hardest kickboxing session.

Speaker 2:          01:58:32       There's no way. The next day you're actually putting 100 percent of your energy in those sessions. So maybe sometimes if they're doing three, they might put 60 percent in each session. You're never really hitting that last 40 percent, which is probably the place you want to be. You want to be in that place where you're not comfortable. You wAnt to be in that place where you're tired because that's what fighting is. Getting yourself to that point you want to throw up if you have to, you know it's is they say it's your. Your mind gives up before the body does. So when you're tired and you starting to feel all that lactic acid and you shut down, they say it's your brain shutting down first and you have some time to keep going. So you've got to prepare your mind to be able to withstand that. If you're hitting bag for 10 rounds and you're looking around and you're fucking around, like what do you, what are you accomplishing that unless you're working on technique or warm up, but you have everything has to have a purpose.

Speaker 2:          01:59:31       I don't believe in doing something that doesn't have a purpose. What's one of the things that I really like about the way you drill and one things I like about the way you shadow box is that you do everything like your inner fight. everything guard is high stances. Perfect. Footwork is perfect. When you say that you lift weights, like what kind of weight lifting where you're doing once a week. Um, it, it's, it's the basics, but the most effective. So I would do, I always squatting. Squatting is very important. Why do you think squatting so important? Lower body when, when everything in, in athletic movements comes from the lower body, you have to have strong hips, know your glutes, got to be firing at a level. And you know when you punch, when you kick, everything comes from your lower body. And that's what people don't understand.

Speaker 2:          02:00:14       So we'll use squatting heavy. We use quoting lightweights, low a high reps, depends what phase I'm in. If I was in hypertrophy phase, I was probably doing 10 sets of 10 on a lower weight. Um, as I was in power strength phase, I was doing five sets of five. As I was more the explosive phase, I would do more of like five sets of three and then I'd maybe super setted with an explosive jump or a standing long jump or a, you know, a skater style movement. But I'd always use it at that sprint some. There's one times where I would do, you know, five heavy explosive squats and then I would line up on the track right after my set and I would do like 10 yard sprints just to work that explosiveness. So that whole point of getting strengthened to explosiveness. So that kind of running you believed in was just that little bit but not, but not too much.

Speaker 2:          02:01:02       That would be like once or twice in a camp. otherwise I know my central nervous system was gonna, shut down no shadow once or twice in a camp. I wouldn't do it very often. Even that sled running all the guys doing the prowler poles and sleds, if I did that, I'd be out of commission for a week because my body would just take a beating and then I would, I wouldn't be able to function and do what I really had to do, which was kickbox next. Right, right. So it had to have a purpose. I would do it as a mental test for myself. I would do it as, um, you know, my weight's not coming off right now. I'm holding a lot of water. Let's run the sleds. I use that as that more than just constantly. If you're running the prowler everyday, your nervous system is taking a freaking beating right now.

Speaker 2:          02:01:44       What about nutrition? Like what, what did you eat and how did you nutrition? I was a little bit. I wasn't super calculated as people are today with counting their macros and micros and I was, that's too complicated and I don't believe in over complicating things. I love the basics. I believe in the basics, so I never over complicated things. I knew what good carbs and bad carbs were. I knew good timing when to eat. I knew what things I should be eating when, but I never really counted how many calories I was eating in my day. I just knew through experience, like it just came through experience and practicing and playing around with my body. There's no cookie cutter approach to it. So like what would a typical meal be like for dinner? It would always be a balanced meal, have a little bit of protein, a little bit of carbs and some vegetable.

Speaker 2:          02:02:34       There's always has the three. At first when I was doing, when I first started fighting, I was like, oh, carbs make you fat, carbs make you fat, and like everyone thinks that everyone wants to die at. The first thing they think they have to do is cut their carbs out. But now there's all this new research about fats and how important is intermittent fasting and how important it is to to keep high fats in your diet. So got a guys are doing the avocados and coconut oils to kind of get that fat, but I just liked the balanced meal. I'd rather lower my protein and have a good carbohydrate, whIch is my first line of energy, so I would eat a lot of sweet potatoes. keen was big potatoes sometimes with vitamins. Not much. Omega threes usually. Um, that's about it. I take an electrolyte after training.

Speaker 2:          02:03:23       That's about it. nothing crazy. Now. What about, um, dId you do anything for. Go ahead. I was going to say it, but I wasn't the guy that if I knew how to fight, I cut weight from eight weeks out. It wasn't like, hey, I'm going to just eat like shit and then I'll deal with it. No, eight weeks out my diet started with my right to refill your body fat. I only want to lose two pounds a week. Anything more than two pounds a week becomes unhealthy. So I'd get to about 10 to 12 pounds a week before my fight. And that was it. Once I was there that last week was all water. And did you do any like, um, deep tissue massage or any ice baths or anything like that? That, yeah, yeah, I did, but not. It wasn't a big focus. I did a lot of rolling out, stretching, that kind of thing, but I liked epsom salt baths.

Speaker 2:          02:04:09       I love that. Some people are obsessed with deep tissue though. I know guys like get deep tissue massage every day after training. And you've done that. Was it the cairo? I just said cryotherapy. Cryo. Yeah. That's intense. Love it. He's never done it. No, I haven't done it. You want to do It? I'll do it. I'll do it today. I'll take you done. I've never done it. Oh, you'll love it. Freak you out. It's just. You can't believe how cold it is. You're like, how the fuck is this? I was like, I gotta try it. I got to try it. But yeah, never really. Two 50 degrees below zero.

Speaker 1:          02:04:38       And how long you in there for like 10, 20 minutes. Three minutes? Yeah. Well you'll do a minute and a half. They won't let you go more than a minute and a half for the first time. Was trying to say I'm soft. No for anyone. I know. It's just the rule. The second time you'll do it. How long do you go in? For? Three minutes. I've done 3:40, I saw longest I've ever done those last 40 minutes. Three minutes of hell. Or is it three minutes of. It's not fun. It's a jamie's done it. You've done it. What is it like jamie? Describe it. It's not really claustrophobic isn't the word because there's a kind of. You can get in your heads above it and you can still talk, but this is not like that. You're heading to. Yeah. You're in a, you're in a meat locker essentially. Where they, the liquid nitrogen cools the oxygen.

Speaker 1:          02:05:19       it's not, you know, like that woman that died in vegas. Do you know that story? No. Well, she, uh, she said it herself and apparently she was kinda short and her mouth was below the outer lip and so she was breathing in the liquid nitrogen and you can't, that's like getting choked out. You have no oxygen. So she just fell asleep and she froze to death and they found her the next day. Frozen solid. See, this is the kind I always see the heads out. Yeah. That's the kind that they, that most people do where your head is out and your body's freezing. But look how much fun she's having. She's having a great time having a blast. She's doing an ad. The kind I do. If you go to cryo healthcare, jamie, the kind we do, you have to wear a mask. You wear like a surgeon's mask over your face.

Speaker 1:          02:06:04       You wear ear muffs, you wear gloves and you wear slippers. Yeah. You wear socks and then you were like rubber crocs and you, uh, you step in there and you're inside a chamber. We'll see if they have some images so you can see what it looks like. You've done that sensory deprivation stuff. I have one of my basement. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. I do that all the time now. giant. If you're claustrophobic, good or bad, someone says you don't even think about it. It's not the best thing for people who are claustrophobic, but claustrophobia is psychological. see, that's where it is. See how these guys, that's how they're dressed. And the ear muffs and the, the, the um, masks. And so you go in that one chamber that's on the right, that's where you take off the robe and then you step into the one on the left and that one is the one where you freeze your dick off.

Speaker 1:          02:06:52       And so you'll do a and a little bit. We're going to take you over there and do about a minute and a half. And they're so awesome. Love to man. um, so I just want to know about it because people keep asking me. It's great. Well, dr rhonda patrick, who's actually on tomorrow who's a huge proponent of both sauna and cold shock therapy and she believes that a heat shock proteins and cold shock proteins like that you get from sauna and you get from a cryotherapy. They proviDe your body with a some incredible anti-inflammatory responses and your body. Essentially when you go to a sauna, your body's freaking out. You're biased. Like what the fuck? It's so hot. And, but if you do it in a controlled environment for a certain amount of time, your body produces these heat shock proteins that are really beneficial for you.

Speaker 1:          02:07:39       And so she believes in the sauna like she thinks there was a study that she was talking about where the sauna showed a 50 percent drop in mortality across the board from all things, whether it's from cancer disease, all these different things like the people who regularly did sauna, such a healthy response to that sauna and having those inflammatory markers reduced in the blood. There it is using the sauna four to seven times per week associated with those 40 percent, 40 percent lower, all caused mortality. That's crazy. Yeah. I was reading something that tim ferriss, he has a book now called tools of the titans and he someone he, I guess he, he has his own podcast or someone just very good for me and he basically talks to all the top people are in their field. And so he wrote a list of like all the tips that these people suggested and a lot of them was ensena and baths.

Speaker 1:          02:08:36       And I never really got into too much of the science behind it. But these, you know, people in this field are saying sauna three times a week is probably one of the best things you can do for yourself. Yeah. When she was writing there hsp, that's what she's talking about. Heat shock proteins and I bet you could probably reproduce that with a hot bath. That's what hsp, um, side of keen's to the. That's also what you're getting from cryotherapy. You're getting these, these anti inflammatory responses and I think you probably could get it from hot yoga too. [inaudible] hot yoga, you get so fucking hot, Ohio. I love it. I did it. It took a little break. But I'm starting again. Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing for flexibility in the class I was in was an hour and a half and that was long, long sucks. The last 15 minutes are bullshit.

Speaker 1:          02:09:24       The last one he literally sit up, lay down or something that I sit up and then we're like, oh shit, I'm dying. It's brutal. You definitely get used to it though. But you know, I've seen like girls that go to my place, it will take two classes in a row. So I feel like such a pussy. Yeah, they're there for three hours. I'm sitting there struggling and falling. This old lady besides killing it, I have to use the little foam blocks that sit down and everyone was just laughing. You can see all the mirrors. The mirrors make it worse than ever feel the whole place is staring at me. Especially they're looking at you. This fucking muscular 60 year old lady has got a foot above her head and went with when I was going was with my ex girlfriend. So a lot of the.

Speaker 1:          02:10:02       A lot of the old ladies would go with that. Your boyfriend there is so cute for trying those. Trying my ass because I'm an athlete and I'm like I'm not letting this old lady be able to do this shit. And I was standing here struggling, are you crazy? But it's like what you're talking about before, if you took a marathon runner and then put them in a pool and there it'd be dying. You know, you're an athlete and you're going to try to competitive guy like sweating extra from trying so hard. Yeah, that was tough. But I love it man. You know, what I feel from yoga and especially from the last year with I've been really consistent with it, is that I feel like all the, like there's a lot of things that are really good for your body. I think lifting weights is good for your body if you do it correctly, if for sure martial arts, all sorts of trainings good for your body.

Speaker 1:          02:10:40       But I feel like what yoga does for your balance and for all the things that connect, like for your joints and your spine. I've never done anything where I can feel my back pop loose. Like there's things you do. Were you in yoga where you, um, you bend down and you reach behind your heels and you tuck your hands under your heels and then you straighten your legs, your body flat into your pulling your body apart with your legs. Like you're literally pulling your spine apart. You here at gulf dump, dump, dump. It's so good for you. And you leave. Like, I like my back is always like from all the years is you just see there's always like a pain. There's always something, megan. Yeah, it's always, but yoga eliminates almost all that shit cause even when I was doing it, like I realized how much scar tissue and shit that developed in my joints, like even if my arm, like I can't focus straight in my left arm and there's the one where you have to kind of put your pinkies together and lay on your arms and that really helps stretch it out and I'm like, oh this stuff's not good.

Speaker 1:          02:11:41       And then I'm sitting on the couch at home and like I'm sitting in positions where I was like, my legs are crossed off on him. Like I can't even cross my legs and here I am like in like a mahatma gandhi here with my legs super folded in half. I was like, this is crazy. And I loved it since then. I wasn't consistent with it, but I said I'm going to be a yoga practitioner for life. Beautiful. Yeah. It's, it's great for mobility and for people that just want to be healthier, it's for the just the ability to use and move your body. I think it's amazing. The problem with guys is that negative stereotype who it's so gay to do yoga, man, try it. Yeah, I know. It's weird that it has that stereotype of why it's so stupid, but it's incredible. I love it.

Speaker 1:          02:12:22       It's one of the more underestimated things in terms of its difficulty factor, you know? It's just very underestimated. When do you think mma fighters should be doing it? I think what you were saying about you can only do so many things is very important, which I think one of the reasons why your philosophy about only working out one time a day, no running, I think, well obviously it worked out great. You had amazing success as a fighter and obviously your endurance with spectacular. Your output was spectacular. I mean you were an aggressive pressure fighter, so when you say that you had the sort of measured approach to training, I think it's very interesting. Some of the times I've gotten my ass kicked the most in jujitsu was after I took yoga. I took yoga in the morning and then I went to train at night and just fucking chill.

Speaker 1:          02:13:05       They say you have to like give some time off from one or something because your body is so loose. The other thing is they say you don't want to overstretch your muscle because then you take it out of that optimal range to fire. So I don't know if you really overstretched things. I don't know if that's true. I I know what you're saying. I know they say they say that a trench for laura. I'm like, that's. I don't think that's. I don't think that necessarily makes sense. I think where that where it makes sense as you shouldn't stretch out before you do explosive things. They used to think you should now they think you should warm up and get your body sweaty and loose, but that an actual stretching will you really stretch something out? You actually lessen the amount of power that you can generate those muscles.

Speaker 1:          02:13:48       Yeah, but I always feel like full mobility. I mean, outside of that, I think that's where the argument is and I think it's obviously correct because there's been research to back it up, but I don't think there's any research that shows that like being able to do a full split in any way. We'll take away your kicking power. Right? I mean think about the amount of power that a lot of these guys can generate that are really flexible. I think if there's any that might be a trade off, like maybe it makes you a little less powerful but a little more mobile and then you can generate more power and build more power up and still keep that mobility. That would be optimum, but I think there's probably a middle ground there that you need to read. What do you think of. I know george st pierre came and made gymnastics popular and then conor mcgregor with that movement.

Speaker 1:          02:14:34       What's your take on that movement? I think footwork is critical in mma. I think it's really important to be able to get out of the way and move in as fast as possible and it's one of the things that conor spectacular at is so good at sliding back, sliding back, back, and he's also. There's also a totally different philosophy that's a part of striking with those little tiny gloves. It's much more difficult to put yourself up in a shell. I mean, the way he would fight with [inaudible] class, I really, you know, I'm not kissing your ass anymore. This is, this is the last time, but I really loved how you were so solid rock solid with your defense and your fundamentals. Chin tucked gloves up high and it was very hard to get through that. That doesn't necessarily work the same way in mma because guys can sneak punches through hard punches around, but I still think you have to have that as a base.

Speaker 1:          02:15:23       I think you're right. No matter what, you're going to get in fight exchanges and there's a lot of guys who are good at closing distance, so isn't. It's better to at least, hey, I'm going to leave and exit with my hands up rather than leaving, exiting with my hands 100 percent and again, the way I throw it and it I could still make it work in mma because one of the tricks that I teach my mma guys is instead of keeping that front arm pinned, you keep it up here so if it covers the center so you're lifting your frontal lobe and so this way your elbow now covers the center line. Right now. It's harder for straight punches and you've got to think, you gave me a straight punch and I put my elbow in front of the block and the center line, if you punch your to knuckle under an mma glove on my elbow to your hand so you can really manipulate that front elbow to be able to kind of use that defense and kind of make a make it work.

Speaker 1:          02:16:17       But again, I still believe in movement. There's another issue in mma to his brick and hand breaking hands. A lot of guys break cans, those little gloves, but when you did old school martial arts, how did you train your hands? Well, you know, there's a lot of guys. My friend john was a nut about this. My friend John Lee, who was a us national taekwondo champion. He used to punch bricks and he had one knuckle like his. His two knuckles had forged into this one giant callous knuckle. It can be seen those old like, oh yeah, that's so yama guys. this old school one but you don't even not cool anymore. But then. But then I heard that shit super bad. As you get older, like massive arthritis and you can't write your own name anymore. So I, I played around with doing some bag work with no gloves.

Speaker 1:          02:17:05       I keep my raps on sometimes. Mostly Just avoid the scraping and the cutting, but I'll hit the bags with with no gloves on and I'll literally hit my hand on different angles. For example, I'll sit there and I hit the side aisle back, fist it you need that, that, like I said earlier in the podcast, you need to strengthen everything. You need to strengthen all those little parts and that's why one of my last instagram videos I said add, waited just a one pound or two pound dumbbell to your sHadow boxing because again, you're, you're, you're working those little joints. He might not necessarily work like if you have those dumbbells and you rotate your hands in a circle, you're going to feel your elbow work at different movements and different ways that help strengthen the joint, so those little minor things add up at the end, I'm sure.

Speaker 1:          02:17:51       Did you ever squeeze your hand grippers or anything like that? Not really, no. A lot of guys are into that too, and I've. I've gotten more into that lately. There's this old school, yeah, there's a company called captains of crush. They make ones that are like 197 pounds to squeeze that make them up to go even heavier than that, but I have one at home that are 1:40, one 60. I keep my car and Just fucking you. Especially for your jujitsu though. That develops naturally. Yes, it does develop naturally, but that's. That accentuates it. Definitely accentuates it and a hanging hanging from your hands like from a chin up bar. You know, what might you do to get my gym? Loves it. He's like, man, he's like, you got to hang. And we're like, get outta here. He's literally hanging and it was like he says, what it's done for his joints has been incredible.

Speaker 1:          02:18:40       Yeah. That was a fish is. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's another steve maxwell thing. He brought up on this podcast about being able to a loose in the shoulders up and alleviate a lot of the impingements through hanging and people were interested in this. They're listening. They have, if you Have a shoulder injury, there's a bunch of videos of it online. Have a while. They explain it. Another thing that I got into recently was a bottoms up kettle bells. You know like this is a kettlebell here and when you. Most of the time you hold a kettle bell, you would hold it like this. When you hold it the other way, you hold it like this, you really have to show that you're developing like real stability in your shoulders that you don't ordinarily. It's more like a stability because it's not like it's hard to hold it up, you know, like it's not the weight itself.

Speaker 1:          02:19:25       Not that hard to lift because he's like, this ironman kettlebell is only 40 pounds. I was actually talking about those today. Dope, right. Whitney miller with glory now, right? Yes, yes, yes. The backseat, she was telling us about it and she was telling me she was, you guys are friends. I love these things, but bottoms up. Kettle bells doesn't have to be an iron man. Any kind it will. It's a very weird it how hard it is to bounce and in place and it's probably like some of those poses when you're on your ball of your foot. Balancing on one leg. Yeah. the strongest bodybuilder in the world. not a chance. What? I was shocked with how my feet would hurt when I first started getting into yoga. I'm like, oh, my feet are fucking killing me. Like when you do the standing bow pose, my feet would be shaking.

Speaker 1:          02:20:08       I was like this. It's so weird. It's such a weird, weird little muscles that you don't think you got to think. Well god, I've been kicking things forever. I might have to be strong. So back to that movement would do like that movements stuff. yes I do. And I don't because like where I was saying about yoga, like I think you've made a really good point. Like you can't do everything and that's probably wind up doing too much. You want to. Yeah. But I think that there's something to the ability to move your body and it's one of the things that eddie bravo is brought up many times. What we have seen over the last few years is a break dancers who have gotten into mma or gotten into jujitsu rather. And they're fucking phenomenal. I mean to, of edie's best students. Uh, Richard Martinez and geo martinez are fucking break dancers.

Speaker 1:          02:20:55       So these guys are ridiculously dexter there. Their dexterity is ridiculous. So they can stand on one hand and have the other hand up in the air and their feet are up and they spend, they can spin on their head and unbelievable ability to move their bodies and that translates directly into grappling and they learn so quick. Like I had heard about these guys when they were just starting. He's like, dude, these guys, they've been doing jujitsu for three months. They're fucking choke. And everybody. I'm like, that's crazy. It's like I'm telling you, it's like just make sense. They can move their body in a way that you can't move your body. Then I think there's mobility and the ability to, um, to, to effectively manipulate your body in a way that's alien to other people I think has significant advantages. And I think that comes from what that ido portal guys doing.

Speaker 1:          02:21:43       And I think that comes from yoga. I think that comes from a lot of these break dancers. But it's a matter of like how much time do you spend doing that? And is it something that you start doing when you're 28, when you're already professional fighter as a world champion, or is it something you need to do when you're 15 and you were a crazy kid fucking around in high school and you get really good at it and then you translate that ability to move your body directly in this martial arts. I looked noW as a 31 year old. I look back now and I say, well, what would I have done if I knew I was going to end up as a professional fighter? Well, what I've done from a young age in order for me to improve to where I was, I want to hear your take on it.

Speaker 1:          02:22:22       So what would you do as a kid? I'll give you an example. One of my things, I would've done gymnastics from a young age. Great. Great thing to say. And my other ones are dancing. It's great thing to. Yeah, that's a great thing. That's why I think chris brown is gonna fuck up. Soulja boy told you. Yeah, I think the ability to move your body. You know what I mean? The ability to move it really well, I mean I noticed that going from taekwondo did jujitsu, that I had great balance. Transferable skills. Yeah. You're used to standing on one leg all the time, so your ability to maintain that position as much better than someone who's not. And I noticed that even translating directly into yoga, but I think it depends on what kind of fighting you were trying to do. Like if I wanted to get into mma, one of the things that I tell people is that wrestling has probably the most important skill.

Speaker 1:          02:23:06       The ability to demonstrate the ability to dictate where the fight takes place. I agree that was a gigantic key to the success of george st pierre and the success of many, many fighters and also the success of many strikers is there defensive wrestling, their ability to keep the fight standing. So if you have the ability to take a guy down and you have the ability to make sure he doesn't take you down, then you can better dictate where the fight takes place. So I think, and I think it's also a skill that's really, that translates so incredibly well when you learn it early in life, but striking is the scariest shit and striking is also something that I think there's a diminished effectiveness and learning as you get older. There's something about like, I've seen people that didn't start doing jujitsu until they're 30 and they develop and they do love black belt skills.

Speaker 1:          02:23:55       Russel peters, by the way, the rest of this grades. He good. Is he good at just starting. Eats too much. He drinks too much. Is beautiful. I saw that. That's awesome. Yeah man, he's training. We train, he's a, he, he gets after a man, he gets tired. I love him. I love that guy to death. But he. Back to the question about it. It depends on what you would want to do. So with a kick boxer saying striking, I think. I think footwork and movement. I think the ability to get in and out. You know like when you look at guys who are really good at not being there when they're their opponent attacks. When you look at like the guys who have fantastic footwork and I think maybe if you want to be a striker, I think really just working. I think what you're saying about your, your training regimen, you would essentially, you're not running around doing all these different things.

Speaker 1:          02:24:49       You're. You're focusing entirely on what you will do in an actual fight. So maybe you didn't do anything wrong. Maybe you did it perfect. That's it. Who knows? YeaH, it works, man. I dunno. I just think like you said, people are doing way too much and that's the problem. yeah, and they're not. Things have to have a purpose, like my strength training. There's all these new tools and these new fun things like, hey, let's do this crazy exercise where I'm doing a dead lift into a squat, into some shoulder press. Why don't you deadlift, do it really well, and then why don't you squat, do it well,

Speaker 3:          02:25:24       and then why don't you shoulder press and do it well in a safe, proper manner. There's. It doesn't have to be over complicated and I think people are trying to overcomplicate and that's what kind of takes away from their success over complicating things. And when do you also agree that it depends entirely upon the kind of body that a person was born with. Like some genetics is huge. Yeah, it's giant and it's sort of like the inescapable factor. If someone has genetic advantages, you know, they just, they just, when they even say like power hitting, I don't know how you can teach someone to hit harder, but there's just those naturally guys who can just knock you out from day one. Just a natural hitting ability. You can't teach someone to hit like George Foreman know it just, it is what it is. no matter how much you turn your shoulder and you put your hip into it, you're not hitting them.

Speaker 3:          02:26:11       Isn't it crazy too that you can't tell by looking at someone? Like tHere's some people you would look at them and they don't look like a big puncher, but there were murderous. yeah, it's the, you know what it is. A lot of those tall guys, they have that stiffness in that. It's like a stiff power. That's really tough. Sometimes it's like a stiff power, but it hurts. What's a mechanical advantage? You know, all that leverage which also translate to jujitsu to giant advantage in jujitsu, to have long limbs. It's tough. Like I like you back to the long point from before, but I became my best as a martial artist with color commentary. You have to know everything. You have to be able to. You have to watch a fight and you have to be able to assess instantly what's going on, how they're doing it.

Speaker 3:          02:26:56       You got to do it on the fly. You don't have time, right? So you have to be able to pick things up quickly and noW I'm at the point where I can look at someone. as soon as they get into their stance, I'll be like, okay, you got to do this, this, this, and this. Well, it's funny too, when you can tell when a guy is gonna kick go, here comes a right kick. You just see it, you see the back, he'll come up, you see them leaning a little bit, or especially when the guy's got spin. That's the big giveaway and I see that left hip turn a little steps that it's that bad. Yeah, you could see it. You can see it. How do you think? Would you be a good coach? If I was invested in it, I would be the best coach that I could be for sure.

Speaker 3:          02:27:30       But do you think one of the reasons why I stoPped teaching when I started doing standup comedy because I wasn't being a very good teacher anymore just because he didn't put the time and the effort into it. It wasn't where my head was at. My head was now I was, you know, there was no, like I said, there was no money in fighting. When I was fighting there was nothing. And so unless you were a boxer, you weren't gonna make any money. So that was before fear factor? Yeah, way before. So there was essentially no way to have a career other than teaching. And so when I started getting into standup comedy, I realized like I got talked into it by guys I train with and when I started doing I realized like, oh wow, like I could make a living doing this. Like this is actually, there's a real path. Like there's guys that I know that make a living doing this where everybody didn't know that's fighting is broke or they're slurring their words like guys from the gym that would be in gym wars all the time and now they're all fucked up. They don't want to know where they parked their car. There

Speaker 1:          02:28:22       was a lot of that shit that was scaring the fuck out of me. So when I started getting into comedy, I quit teaching and I suffered financially because of it. But I would rather do that at the time my mind was I would rather suffer financially then give anybody a halfassed coaching job. Yeah. No. So coaching mma I think is one of the most difficult things in all sports. You know? I bet. I'm sure coach and kickboxing is probably very similar in that regard in that you're so invested in your students. There's so much. Yeah, I mean, and it's so you're, you're, you know, there's nothing you can do. You can train them as much as you can, but you got to let them go when they get into that ring or get into that cage and like, you know and hope that it all comes together.

Speaker 1:          02:29:07       But the other problem I find with mma is that a lot of coaches, there's too many coaches. I find you have a lot of these guys have a boxing coach that's telling him to box a certain way. Then all of a sudden they're going, hey, I got to do more now. So they have a moy coach, coaches now telling them to do more tie this way. Then all of a sudden, hey, we got to do spinning shit, so let's deal with here. So now all of a sudden you have three different coaches all telling you to do different things. Yeah. So now this poor fighter is going to go to the ring. Yeah. You might not know. You might know everything, but I'm all of them, but what are you going to do? You're going to get confused. That's where, again, basics are important. That's why I don't think you should overcomplicate shit, so I know if you're going to jab, I know how I'm going to do it.

Speaker 1:          02:29:51       I'm not. I don't have time to sit and be like, okay, I know I compare it. I know I can slip. I know I can time with the local. You have to know and I think with too many, too many coaches are complicating shit for these guys where they think they have to hit all of these things, so they're going all these different coaches and it's way over complicated, so who do you listen to? How do you listen to which way's the right way? Which ones are wrong with my boxing coach is telling me to turn my heel out. My kickboxing coach is telling me to keep my front foot pointing forward, which is the right way. It's a good point and I think that's where guys like matt hume, guys like for us a hobby. That's why they're so important to. Because their overall mma coaches and also I think what's really important about guys like matt and for us is that both of those guys are highly accomplished martial artists in all disciplines, so they really know how to put it all together like us, a black belt in jujitsu and outstanding striker, so he knows how to combine all those things together.

Speaker 1:          02:30:48       That's so critical. And it was probablY the same way. Yeah. I mean there's, there's maybe a dozen of them on the planet and that's a problem if you're not near any of those and you start out with someone and then that coach becomes like a mentor figure to you and then you realize, oh, my coach is kind of limited in a lot of ways. It's very difficult to separate yourself. It's hard to see that. Yes. And it's kind of, you can't be a fighter who you put all your trust into this man to help you out. Then all of a sudden you're like, oh, he's lacking thing. Like I remember with, uh, with mitch gagnon, he came to me and he was like, he had a guy working with them all the time and I was just kinda like, I go to um, uh, his friend who asked me to help him with his striking was like, I don't know if I can help this guy.

Speaker 1:          02:31:32       He's just so bad technically at this point where I'm like, it's a lot of work I have to do to, to kind of fix and clean things up. And that's my way. But he was so good at just being a beast and not caring that he was successful. But when I showed him my way of putting things, he's like, ugh, I wish I learned this earlier. you know, I wish I had this. And then there was kind of, sometimes you can kind of get angry about them. And my why did I waste like so many years with this guy, if this is the way it should've been done from the beginning. Yeah. I mean, obviously people are limited geographically as far as like having a good coach near them. But I urge anybody listening to this to put the research in before you join a gym, it's so much harder to unlearn something than it is to learn it.

Speaker 1:          02:32:15       So when you have. Like one of the things that I would deal with in teaching taekwondo is guys who came from other martial arts that didn't know how to do certain things correctly, like they, their knees would be down. They didn't lift the knee above the hip. They didn't get real power in anything. They never worked with a kicking bag. They never worked with a heavy bag. They'd just done stuff in the air and so they didn't have any power. And so you'd have to try to reteach them and like they did when they would get tired, it'd be the same thing, foot up, knee down, everything be all screwed up. And you're like, no, no, no, no. you got to go. Even when you're tired, you've got to stick to the proper technique. And then you would fall into what you learned first. Yeah, it's tough.

Speaker 1:          02:32:52       yeah, it's tough. And you always want to trust that Person because you can't. You have to. And that's a lot of the fighters. Um, confidence comes from their coach. yeah. So you have to, but it's kind of hard. It's very hard. It's hard to find that balance and it's also, you have to have a relationship with that coach where you like them. Yeah, that's, that's hard too. So if you were to have an mma fight, where would you go? Man? Is that putting you on the spot? No, but I think those guys that you talked about, matt hume, those two guys are in my opinion, like cream of the crop, duke, duke, roufus, you know, I think you'd have to have someone also that sees what you do well and says, well, this is obviously your primary base. You're really good at this. So let's, let's work on all these other aspects too, but this, we're not going to try and take this away from you and turn you into a wrestler, you know, then you're going to fight a real, real fucked up.

Speaker 1:          02:33:43       Yeah. It's, I mean, and it's, it's such a creative approach because you're creating a fighter. When you take someone and you're, you're putting all the tools together and you're helping them, helping mold them, but then it's also up to them too. It's up to them to be improvisational inside the ring or the octagon and to figure out how to put those things together and everyone's got their own little style or own their own approach, you know, and again, a lot of the differences like I mean just because I do something differently than someone else doesn't necessarily mean they're way is the wrong way. Right? Right.

Speaker 3:          02:34:18       Of course I'm going to believe my system is the best system in the way, but it's not to say it's the only way now there is no only way and that's what I love, but you have to be open to know that there's other ways. And that's where I've been touching around on the. Have you read the book of five rings? Yes. And he talks about you have to know your weaknesses, you have to know other arts in order to make your art and style the best. That's musashi. That's my tattoo. I've been reading it. I could only read one page at a time because I'm like, shit, I got to sit there, I got to reflect on it. And uh, he was a deep dude. I mean he killed 60 people. It's one on one combat me and multiple musashi, one of the greatest samurais ever.

Speaker 3:          02:34:58       And during a weird phase in history, you know, he was a ronan traveling around just getting in sword fights crazy and doing calligraphy and art. He opened my mind to this idea that you have to be balanced in order to be effective in combat. You can't have any holes in your mental game. And one of the ways to not have holes in the mental game was that he would approach everything as like art, everything you did, whether you were writing your name, whether you were a, you know, filling out a form, driving your car. Oh no, no cars back then obviously. But everything that you did, you would do with excellence. Yeah. It was a bad motherfucker. oh, for sure. I love it. And it gets deep and talk about it and you look at it and you can look at yourself sometimes and be like, yeah man, I'm the modern day of some of the stories he does.

Speaker 3:          02:35:43       Like I did that in a different way, you know? And I think that's really cool for me to see and read. Yeah. Because it translates, you know, this guy lived that life and then it's just a different time. Yeah. And then sat down and try to relay the information that he had accumulated over this life of fucking people up at sorts. I have a random question I'd asked you to fighting. True or false. Was it a real story that you wanted to fight wesley snipes? It wasn't my idea. It was a. Because I always wanted to know about that. Yeah. That was ever a story. One of the original producers of the ufc, campbell mclaren, who's a buddy of mine. Yeah. I did a reality show with them. What was it? I did a combat this America. I was a guest star. I was a guest coach on it.

Speaker 3:          02:36:25       Well, they're still doing that show. They're still having fights, you know, he's still putting on fires. It was cool because one of the guys that, uh, it was like a guest kickboxing coach on the shell, uh, now fights with glory. Daniel Morales. Yeah. Wow. that's awesome. Man was cool experience. So he came to me with the idea because wesley snipes had tax problems. That's what it was about. So yeah, we're going to deal with. If I was gonna yeah, would it have been a ufc sanctioned? Yeah, that would have been interesting. Who knows, you know, that's why I asked earlier was like she didn't ask him or not. I'm like, I got to ask. Well, he had a martial arts background. I know he did a lot of karate and you know, I know he was a, a good kicker. Like you could tell like when you throw punches and kicks and he knew how to execute techniques but he'd never fought, you know, and he had no jujitsu at all.

Speaker 3:          02:37:10       Zero. And I was like, well, good luck. Was he, was he thinking about taking it? He just, it where we were. We had lawYers, we had signed contracts or we had negotiated contracts. Aren't you an unlockable character on the ufc game? Lockable. Lockable, yeah. Unlockable would say wrong. Yeah. You can unlock me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's character. I don't know. It's weird that you have to do some weird fucking thing to do it. You have to do that. What is it called? Konami code. It's like a well known code in order to get you on the game. YeAh. You could do that and you can unlock me. Know, do you fight as you know, I don't. I don't play video games. I have a problem with my brain. I can't get involved in games. I get better. Yeah. I'm a, I have an addictive personality and I try to avoid all things that are negative or waste time that can be addictive, you know?

Speaker 3:          02:38:01       You know? Yeah. It's crazy. You have to know that. You know what's crazy too, like I've worked at, because I worked with kids with special needs and I work a lot with autism and I realized and I was like, man, these kids like just so obsessed with certain things in routine and then I started looking at other people in my life and think maybe we all have that little bit of that autistic traits in us. you know, like you have to be obsessed. For me to be a world champion, I have to be obsessed with training. You can't just do it and be okay. Like as these, you know, people living with autism, they're just so obsessed with that one thing. Like I have students who are so obsessed with like the train system and then all of a sudden they can't think of anything else, but the train system you can try and they'll tell you anywhere how to get in toronto.

Speaker 3:          02:38:46       They'll tell you which bus, which way the most intelligent people you've ever met. But if you ask them a simple question, they won't know it because they just don't care. They're mind is so focused on one thing and autism is just beautiful and crazy at the same time. I think it's beautiful to see someone so obsessed and not caring about other things and what they're focused on. It doesn't work well in society obviously, but there are so absorbed in it and I think back and I was like, man, a lot of us have these personalities to be able to be so obsessed and so routine. Like these guys, these individuals with autism have to do everything in a particular way. Certain time, a little bit of ocd in there. I think to be successful and things, you kind of have to have that little bit of personality.

Speaker 3:          02:39:26       Yeah, and they can make incredible progress and that's one of the things that a lot of those people are recruited by silicon valley companies like specifically recruited because they know that they can achieve some incredible feats of success. I have. I, I have a student at my school that probably knows ufc more than you. Like he's literally. It's crazy. Everything. Wow. Every fighter, every name, where they're from, what they do, what they're, you name it, he knows it. Any fighter, any fighter you can ask him from one. I had a guy talked to me about this once and he argued that it's potentially, it's an evolutionary trait and what we're watching is the next level of human intelligence. We're seeing it and like blips and leaps and a non reliance on emotion and that is also,

Speaker 1:          02:40:14       he believes that this is, that, you know, human beings are interacting more with computers and ever before and they're interacting less with people and a lot of circumstances and he thinks that what you're seeing is this eventual transition between humans now and humans of the future. It's things have changed. No stripping. Let's. This is a fucking awesome podcast. We've got to get out of here because I've got to go take you freezing. And uh, I gotta wrap this bitch up and go home. But thank you brother. Appreciate it. I am so happy to be here. finally, I'm happy we finally did it too. And glory in los angeles this friday. Watch it on ufc fight pass to world title fights that Israel had assigned. Sign. Jason wellness. Matt, every robin van [inaudible] smiling. Yeah, I'll be there. I'll be there and if you haven't seen kickboxing, this is your chance. Check it out. I guarantee you you'll become a fan or I don't want to talk to you soon.